Freethought & Rationalism Archive

meritocrat · 10-20-2003, 02:48 AM

Did they really take place? Are they just metaphors or allegories?

braces_for_impact · 10-20-2003, 03:00 AM

Depends on your definition of "miracle" as far as I see it. I have never seen anything that I would call a miracle. I have never been able to verify that something was done in contradiction to the natural laws of the universe, or seen anything that could be proven to be supernatural. So until I get some sort of evidence that these things are possible, I would have to say it's highly suspect.

On the other hand, is it possible that these seemingly miraculous events took place, but that this Jesus fellow was a good illusionist and a fraud? That seems much more likely.

Another option is of course that Jesus and his miracles were all invented as part of a new religious cult, and that also seems likely.

meritocrat · 10-20-2003, 06:11 AM

The miracles are a nonsense in my view. How can it be possible to walk across water?

Oh wait, Jesus was God and God can do anything....

. No, the 'miracles' have no logical base. They simply are metaphor in my opinion.

abe smith · 10-20-2003, 06:34 AM

re OP: You alluding to Jesus's *alleged* miracles? I suggest parenthetically that (as you appear to be unfamiliar w/ it?) >>>> you might read David Hume's paper on Miracles.

Barcode · 10-20-2003, 06:36 AM

Miracles? LOL! The only way I could believe Jesus fed thousands of people, rose from the dead, healed the sick and walked on water is if I was missing a piece of my brain.

Look, if such miracles are true, then why aren't such things happening today? It is rather odd that " miracles " generally occur amongst religious groups (mass hysteria?) and not to anybody else.

I mean, a " miracle " would be sufficient proof for me to believe in the supernatural.

Funny how miracles also have a tendency to occur to one or two individuals in poor areas ... and then the cash starts rolling in once deluded pilgrims visit apparitions of the virgin Mary and whatever else people manage to conjure up in their imagination.

Show me the evidence, and I'll believe ... how many Christians would accept an atheists faith based assertion that miracles are false?

Secular Pinoy · 10-20-2003, 07:14 AM

I doubt the veracity of the Gospel narratives anyway. It could all just be made up.

Magus55 · 10-20-2003, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by meritocrat
The miracles are a nonsense in my view. How can it be possible to walk across water?

Oh wait, Jesus was God and God can do anything.... . No, the 'miracles' have no logical base. They simply are metaphor in my opinion.

Then why did you bring it up if you already know the answer?

premjan · 10-20-2003, 07:23 AM

the miracles are just fabrications used to keep the gullible in good fettle.

Dreaming Skin · 10-20-2003, 07:30 AM

Miralce schmiracle. I think people have always confused "impossible" with "unlikely."

People are not unlikely to walk on water; it's patently impossible based on the law of physics. It's unlikely for a person to recover from late-stage cancer, but not impossible.

Magicians, trickery, and illusions have always been around. Place yourself a thousand or so years ago and devise a few tricks. Present them to a crowd of peasants without a clue of science and suddenly you're a god.

10-20-2003, 02:48 AM	#1
meritocrat Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 2,608	Jesus' miracles Did they really take place? Are they just metaphors or allegories?

10-20-2003, 07:23 AM	#8
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	miracles the miracles are just fabrications used to keep the gullible in good fettle.

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10-20-2003, 03:00 AM	#2
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	Depends on your definition of "miracle" as far as I see it. I have never seen anything that I would call a miracle. I have never been able to verify that something was done in contradiction to the natural laws of the universe, or seen anything that could be proven to be supernatural. So until I get some sort of evidence that these things are possible, I would have to say it's highly suspect. On the other hand, is it possible that these seemingly miraculous events took place, but that this Jesus fellow was a good illusionist and a fraud? That seems much more likely. Another option is of course that Jesus and his miracles were all invented as part of a new religious cult, and that also seems likely.

10-20-2003, 06:11 AM	#3
meritocrat Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 2,608	The miracles are a nonsense in my view. How can it be possible to walk across water? Oh wait, Jesus was God and God can do anything.... . No, the 'miracles' have no logical base. They simply are metaphor in my opinion.

10-20-2003, 06:34 AM	#4
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	re OP: You alluding to Jesus's alleged miracles? I suggest parenthetically that (as you appear to be unfamiliar w/ it?) >>>> you might read David Hume's paper on Miracles.

10-20-2003, 06:36 AM	#5
Barcode Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 633	Miracles? LOL! The only way I could believe Jesus fed thousands of people, rose from the dead, healed the sick and walked on water is if I was missing a piece of my brain. Look, if such miracles are true, then why aren't such things happening today? It is rather odd that " miracles " generally occur amongst religious groups (mass hysteria?) and not to anybody else. I mean, a " miracle " would be sufficient proof for me to believe in the supernatural. Funny how miracles also have a tendency to occur to one or two individuals in poor areas ... and then the cash starts rolling in once deluded pilgrims visit apparitions of the virgin Mary and whatever else people manage to conjure up in their imagination. Show me the evidence, and I'll believe ... how many Christians would accept an atheists faith based assertion that miracles are false?

10-20-2003, 07:14 AM	#6
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	I doubt the veracity of the Gospel narratives anyway. It could all just be made up.

10-20-2003, 07:30 AM	#9
Dreaming Skin Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Rock Hell, SC Posts: 263	Miralce schmiracle. I think people have always confused "impossible" with "unlikely." People are not unlikely to walk on water; it's patently impossible based on the law of physics. It's unlikely for a person to recover from late-stage cancer, but not impossible. Magicians, trickery, and illusions have always been around. Place yourself a thousand or so years ago and devise a few tricks. Present them to a crowd of peasants without a clue of science and suddenly you're a god.

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