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04-03-2008, 04:55 PM | #51 | ||
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CANON Anti-christians 1 John 4:1, ‘spirits’ termed Antichrist deny that ‘Jesus Christ has come in the flesh,’ also see 2 John 7 (condemns a similar denial). This description suggests that the heretics who were viewed as docetic and those whom were termed antichristian were possibly related in the nature of their reaction and response to their assimilation of the new testament literature. NON CANON Anti-christians? Aside from the entire nation of the Jewish people, are such reports forthcoming from the history of Eusebius, or his continuators? I am still looking. We have the following from Ecclesiastical_History_Socrates_Book_01 Quote:
This is tendered by the later christians as the historical preparatory to the Arian controversy, which resolves to the words of Arius, and raged for a century after the "Council" of Nicaea. An "antichristian" was some sort of super-doceticist in the realm of literary heresy. Was there in fact no person during the time when the new testament was widely published who ever once may have suggested that the new testament was simply a Constantinian fiction? The answer to this question is that we dont know for sure, since we have no independent non-christian histories surviving (at the moment) written from the time of Constantine's rule. I would certain expect there to be opposition to the implementation of a new and strange top-down-emperor cult which is being implemented from a position of military supremacy and in association with strongly enforced prohibitions of temple services related to the ancient traditions. That "docetic" (and "anti-christian") be a christian euphemism for "fictional" (ie: utter disbelief in the historical claims of the new testament) is to be balanced against considerations such as the above. Our reports from the fourth century have been vetted by the victors on that day. Best wishes, Pete Brown |
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04-03-2008, 05:18 PM | #52 | |
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The therapeutae of Asclepius were ubiquitous at this epoch, and there may be sufficient grounds to consider that when Philo was writing about the therapeutae of Egypt, and of Greece, and "everywhere" that he was speaking about the one and the same collegiate structure, which at least included Asclepius. Philo describes the importance of Egypt to this "community". Coneybeare tells us that Philostratus writes about the "priest of Asclepius" in his "The Life of Apollonius of Tyana", but you insist on making the claim that Coneybeare is mistranslating "priest", without providing any explanation for your position. What does Jeffrey know that Coneybeare did not? Perhaps we will never know. Best wishes, Pete Brown |
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04-03-2008, 07:31 PM | #53 | |||
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The only issue I've spoken of is not the adequacy of C's translation, but the validity of your claim about what one finds within it. If I've been insisting on anything, it's that you back up your claim, made "]here, that "there are at least nine times" in his translation of the first book of "The Life" that Coneybeare "uses the word "priest" (with regard to Asclepius)" by pointing us to/citing all nine places in book one of C's translation where C does what you say he does. And as the record shows, you've never done so because your claim is rubbish. Jeffrey Jeffrey at least nine times in the first book" of that work (see here) k" of that work (see here)eight th or more places in C's translation of book one of C usescdone have made no such claim, let alone insieted upon it. What does Jeffrey know that Coneybeare did not? Perhaps we will never know. Best wishes, Pete Brown[/QUOTE] |
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04-03-2008, 10:51 PM | #54 | ||
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04-04-2008, 06:01 AM | #55 | |
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Coneybeare's Priest of Asclepius Count
SOURCE: http://www.chrestos.com/apollonius1-5 There are five references in this section alone. What is your point Jeffrey? Quote:
Best wishes, Pete Brown |
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04-04-2008, 07:12 AM | #56 | |
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[QUOTE=Jeffrey Gibson;5251362]
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Moreover, you might want to take into account the fact that in the context of section 11 of Book One (and in the light of the description of the Asclepeum at Aegae in section 7 and section 11 as a "shrine", not a temple) the term that C. translates as "priest" (i.e., ἱερεύς) is actually being used by Philostratus with the sense of "sacrificer, diviner". Jeffrey |
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04-04-2008, 07:25 PM | #57 | |||||
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Arius of Alexandria as a non-christian (ie: pagan) priest
[QUOTE=Jeffrey Gibson;5251420]http://www.chrestos.com/apollonius1-1
Reference in general to "prophets and priests" Quote:
http://www.chrestos.com/apollonius1-4 Quote:
http://www.chrestos.com/apollonius1-5 Previously remitted to the Gibson inquisition. Five citations to Coneybeare's "priest": Cumulative Count = 6 http://www.chrestos.com/apollonius1-6 Quote:
A further four instances. Cumulative Count = 10 without having to go any further. Quote:
What actually separates the pagan priesthood and the "christian priesthood" but a slight misunderstanding at the council of Nicaea over the words of Arius of Alexandria. The sedition, the parodies, the polemic, the songs, the words of Arius are the words from the pagan priesthood, perhaps, but not necessarily, of Asclepius. How DOCETIC was the report of Arius' unbelief? If Arius was a pagan priest then we are not dealing docetic theology. If Arius was a pagan priest then we are dealing with political sedition against Constantine. Quote:
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04-04-2008, 07:42 PM | #58 | |
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Jeffrey |
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04-05-2008, 05:06 PM | #59 | |||
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Please select your preferred citation to "recorded history" before 312 CE. Quote:
Eusebius tenders the new testament, he tenders his Ecclesiatical Church Fathers' Histories and associated letters from the archives in Edessa, he tenders the Martyr accounts, the geographical discurses, he tendered an entire package which was lavishly appointed in all areas of fiction. The Constantinian inspired scriptoria of that epoch probably also had their hand in the Historia Augusta at some stage in the preceedings. Evidence and not rhetoric is required at this stage. Best wishes, Pete Brown |
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