Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doug Shaver · 10-02-2006, 09:08 PM

A Christian replied:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Christian

I dont know what scholarship you've been reading. But all scholarship I'v found worth reading agrees that Matthew Mark, and Luke were definetly written by the people they were attributed to.

The tipoff is in the reference to "scholarship . . . worth reading." Inerrantists think no scholarship is worth anything unless it supports their dogma.

Ted Hoffman · 10-02-2006, 10:41 PM

In Letter of Concern for Prof. Dr. Gerd Luedemann that Funk wrote, he says:

Quote:

What is most distressing to us is the fact that Prof. Luedemann has also been barred from reading the faculty exams, advising doctoral students, and evaluating the work of Dozents. None of these educational programs necessarily involves the training of persons to serve in the church. That the state, through the offices of the University and the Theological Faculty, should bar him from participating fully in these areas is a grave stroke against academic freedom. The issue here is not the quality or persuasiveness of Prof. Luedemann's views. In fact, many of us have criticized his ideas, even as he has criticized ours. The issue is the free exchange of ideas, in print, and in the classroom. It is our understanding that through the actions taken by the University and the Theological Faculty, Prof. Luedemann has effectively been barred from offering courses or advising students. This goes to the heart of academic freedom. The classroom is above all the place where academic freedom must be exercised. Without this, there is no real academic freedom. And without academic freedom, there is no intellectual integrity.

Lets stop this bull. There is no academic freedom in Theological Seminaries, even if it is not presented transparently in the recruitment process.

jgibson000 · 10-02-2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

In Letter of Concern for Prof. Dr. Gerd Luedemann that Funk wrote, he says:

Lets stop this bull. There is no academic freedom in Theological Seminaries, even if it is not presented transparently in the recruitment process.

Let's stop this bull of making unwarranted inductive leaps from limited data. At most all you can say from the above is that there is restricted academic freedom at the particular institution at which Ludemann was barred from teaching.

As to DTS, I have messages from Dan Wallace and Darrell Bock to pass on to you here which show that the claim about the criteria at DTS for hiring being bound up with an employee having to teach as true the traditional ascriptions of Gospel authorship is as ill informed as it is bogus.

Jeffrey

Ted Hoffman · 10-03-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

As to DTS, I have messages from Dan Wallace and Darrell Bock to pass on to you here which show that the claim about the criteria at DTS for hiring being bound up with an employee having to teach as true the traditional ascriptions of Gospel authorship is as ill informed as it is bogus.

That is so naive. It is like asking the vatican for an official statement on whether it is true that they think that Muslims are full of crap.
Bock was the president of the Evangelical Theological Society a few years ago and Wallace is on the pastoral staff of Stonebriar Community Church. These are conservatives through and through and they are right in their element in theological seminaries. To ask them about whether confessional interests of prospectice staff are considered before employment is to ask them to deny exactly the same thing because it would make them look bad. Lemche, Tim Thompson and other liberal Biblical scholars think that evangelical scholars are the albatross around the neck of Biblical scholarship that keeps dragging down the field in theological waters everytime it comes up to breathe in the fresh air of academic freedom, threatening to drown it permanently.

Alf · 10-03-2006, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgibson000

Better yet, you might ask him just what this scholarship actually is. That is to say, ask him for the names of the scholars whose works he's been reading and what the criteria he uses for determining what is and what is not worth reading actually are.

Jeffrey Gibson

If one dare to second guess - Names like Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, etc etc...

Oh well.

Against rampant stupidity the fight for englightenment is doomed to lose.

Alf

hatsoff · 10-03-2006, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgibson000

Fine. But this is not the same thing as requiring their staff to accept/believe in the historical accuracy of the second century ascriptions of authorship to the Gospels. let alone to accept/believe in it to get employed.

Find me a scholar who accepts inerrancy but denies the traditional ascriptions of authorship. Please.

Quote:

And if it is, you'd better tell this to Darrell Bock's superiors.

Nothing I can find indicates Bock rejects inerrancy or authorship traditions.

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