Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Kesler · 11-12-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butswana

According to the Yahoo article, they are in fact claiming that this proves Goliath was a real dude.....sort of. If you just read headline and the first paragraph that is. Which I imagine that is all some will need to read.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051111/...eology_goliath

One interesting fact is that in the David and Goliath narrative, the name Goliath only appears in verses 4 and 23. Elsewhere, David's opponent is referred to simply as "the Philistine," perhaps to award David a victory ascribed to Elhanan in 2 Samuel 21:19. The Chronicler later "clarified" the record in 1 Chronicles 20:5.

vsop44 · 11-12-2005, 07:21 AM

So there was a guy named Goliath , we still have no proof that the king David and his son Solomon of bible fame ever existed !

Chris Weimer · 11-12-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Their logic is obviously facetious, and where exactly did they find the name 'Goliath' again? In their heads?

Their evidence may be wrong, and the conclusion non sequitur, but the logic is sound. But this is only assuming what they conclude is correct - for that I don't know.

NumberTenOx · 11-14-2005, 12:28 PM

From here:

Quote:

Goliath's name found in Israeli archaeological dig
13 Nov 2005 15:07:52 GMT

Source: Reuters

By Allyn Fisher-Ilan

RAMAT GAN, Israel, Nov 13 (Reuters) - An Israeli researcher said he has made a Goliath of a find -- the first archaeological evidence suggesting the biblical story of David slaying the Philistine giant actually took place.

A shard of pottery unearthed in a decade-old dig in southern Israel carried an inscription in early Semitic style spelling "Alwat and "Wlt", likely Philistine renderings of the name Goliath, said Aren Maeir, who directed the excavation.

"This is a groundbreaking find," he said of the rust-coloured ceramic. "Here we have very nice evidence the name Goliath appearing in the Bible in the context of the story of David and Goliath ... is not some later literary creation."

...

The specimen, from about 900 BC, isn't old enough to have belonged to Goliath, himself -- believed to have lived around 1,000 BC, Maeir said.

But he added: "It is the first time in the land of Israel that we have (found) the name Goliath, or a name like Goliath".

"I haven't found Goliath's skeleton with the hole in the centre of his forehead, but it's the first archaeological evidence form a Philistine site which lends strong credibility" to the story, the U.S.-born researcher said.

...

Maier said he spent several months verifying his find with other experts and planned to discuss it at a conference in the United States later this month.

I wonder if they used Carbon dating to determine the date? Also what the rest of the inscription said? And how common a name this was? And why they think "Alwat and "Wlt" translates to "Goliath"?

I'd be interested in more information...

breathilizer · 11-14-2005, 12:35 PM

Btter yet, I'd like to point out that this is the FIRST evidence to support the David and Goliath story. Therefore it is the ONLY evidence. Therefore, the entire story of D&G rests on this one piece of evidence which shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that... *drum roll, please*

... Goliath was the real name of no one in particular!

...

*crickets*

Toto · 11-14-2005, 01:52 PM

Christianity Today quotes from a Biblical studies blogger who includes a comprehesive list of links: Higgaion: my take on the LWT/WLT sherd

Quote:

In other words, we might could conclude from the sherd—after several logical steps—that the author of 1 Samuel 17 knew how to spell early Iron Age Philistine names authentically. That's really as far as we can go.

Kosh · 11-14-2005, 08:59 PM

No, I can hear the Sermons this Sunday....

"And I tell you brothers, the world may make fun of us, they may say that it never happened. But I tell you now, as surely as God is sitting here with us today, that this week, archeaologists found yet more proof that the Bible is true...."

Paul Harvey said something about it yesterday. While not as blatant, he made it sound like it was THE goliath.

This will take years to diffuse...

spin · 11-15-2005, 06:01 AM

It's all crap. More drivel from sensationalist media. There isn't even a "g" at the beginning.

Julian · 11-15-2005, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

It's all crap. More drivel from sensationalist media. There isn't even a "g" at the beginning.

Since I know no hebrew, it would be appreciated if you would explain what you mean here. Does it not say Goliath or some derivation thereof? What do you think it says?

Julian

Toto · 11-15-2005, 11:03 AM

From the blog above:

Quote:

My take on the 'LWT/WLT sherd

Well, I'm definitely behind the curve on this one. Apparently a postherd has recently been published that seems to have the letter-strings �?לות and ולת scratched into it. These markings have been interpreted as "Goliath-like names."

From The Jerusalem Post

Quote:

Written in archaic "Proto-Canaanite" letters, the inscription found on the shard, dating to the 10th or early 9th century BCE, contains two non-Semitic names: Alwt and Wlt. Most scholars believe the name Goliath, of non-Semitic origin, is etymologically related to various Indo-European names, such as the Lydian name Aylattes.

Following intense examination of the inscription, Prof. Meir (along with his colleagues Prof. Aaron Demsky, an expert in epigraphy at Bar-Ilan University, and Dr. Stefan Wimmer, of Munich University) has concluded that the two names which appear in the inscription are remarkably similar to the etymological parallels of Goliath.

So it isn't even Goliath, it's something that looks like it might be related to an etymological parallel of Goliath.

And they think paleontologists do a lot with a single tooth. . .

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11-12-2005, 07:21 AM	#12
vsop44 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: On an icefloe off the atlantic coast of Canada Posts: 1,095	So there was a guy named Goliath , we still have no proof that the king David and his son Solomon of bible fame ever existed !

11-14-2005, 12:35 PM	#15
breathilizer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 3,090	Btter yet, I'd like to point out that this is the FIRST evidence to support the David and Goliath story. Therefore it is the ONLY evidence. Therefore, the entire story of D&G rests on this one piece of evidence which shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that... drum roll, please ... Goliath was the real name of no one in particular! ... crickets

11-14-2005, 08:59 PM	#17
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	No, I can hear the Sermons this Sunday.... "And I tell you brothers, the world may make fun of us, they may say that it never happened. But I tell you now, as surely as God is sitting here with us today, that this week, archeaologists found yet more proof that the Bible is true...." Paul Harvey said something about it yesterday. While not as blatant, he made it sound like it was THE goliath. This will take years to diffuse...

11-15-2005, 06:01 AM	#18
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	It's all crap. More drivel from sensationalist media. There isn't even a "g" at the beginning.

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