Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DBT · 10-07-2003, 06:55 PM

You all know the products,magnetic pillow cases,underlays,belts and clips for bad backs, arthritis, etc,
There are claimes for healing and increased longevity.
Has anyone had any good results?
Any thoughts apreciated.

pmurray · 10-07-2003, 10:44 PM

Tons of people have had good results! Same as for prayer, aromatherapy, etc etc etc. The good results are in two categories:

1 - Placebo
2 - Regression to mean

Peoples conditions vary over time, get worse and get better. Usually, when you buy something for it, it's at a time when the condition is relatively worse. As the condition improves back to it's usual state, people tend to credit his to whetever the bought.

Most risible of all, frequently these magnets are fridge magnets. Frigde magnets differ from bar magnets in that they have alternating strips of north and south pole areas across them. You can check this yourself by sticking two fridge magnets dogether and dragging one across the other. The reason they are built this way is so that the magnetic field only extends a few millimetres beyond the magnet. For this reason, a fridge magnet will not be able to stick to a fridge if you put more than a few layers of paper between it and the metal.

At best, the field of one of these things will penetrate the skin. It's absurd to suppose it would have any effect on organs, or on rebalancing your flow of chi.

DBT · 10-08-2003, 06:37 PM

Thats about what I thought , I have been trying a 'thereputic' magnet on my back injury with no result.

Theophage · 10-09-2003, 10:01 AM

I hear magnets are good for fixing ailing floppy disks, and videotapes...

Dr Rick · 10-09-2003, 10:13 AM

There was one small, pilot study published from Baylor several years that suggested there was some therapeutic benefit from magnets. Subsequent larger and better trials to confirm those initial findings instead refuted them.

elwoodblues · 10-09-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rick
There was one small, pilot study published from Baylor several years that suggested there was some therapeutic benefit from magnets. Subsequent larger and better trials to confirm those initial findings instead refuted them.

Double-blind and controlled? Because otherwise, you'll get placebo and regression to the mean effects, like pmurray pointed out.

ps418 · 10-09-2003, 11:00 AM

The study was placebo-controlled and double-blind, but there were plenty of other problems. The control group for instance was not at all well-matched to the magnet group:

Quote:

The main basis for the claims is a double-blind test study, conducted at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, which compared the effects of magnets and sham magnets on knee pain. The study involved 50 adult patients with pain related to having been infected with the polio virus when they were children. A static magnetic device or a placebo device was applied to the patient's skin for 45 minutes. The patients were asked to rate how much pain they experienced when a "trigger point was touched." The researchers reported that the 29 patients exposed to the magnetic device achieved lower pain scores than did the 21 who were exposed to the placebo device [3} Although this study is cited by nearly everyone selling magnets, it provides no legitimate basis for concluding that magnets offer any health-related benefit:

Although the groups were said to be selected randomly, the ratio of women to men in the experimental group was twice that of the control group. If women happen to be more responsive to placebos than men, a surplus of women in the "treatment" group would tend to improve that group's score.

The age of the placebo group was four years higher than that of the control group. If advanced age makes a person more difficult to treat, the "treatment" group would again have a scoring advantage.

The investigators did not measure the exact pressure exerted by the blunt object at the trigger point before and after the study.
Even if the above considerations have no significance, the study should not be extrapolated to suggest that other types of pain can be relieved by magnets.

There was just one brief exposure and no systematic follow-up of patients. Thus there was no way to tell whether any improvement would be more than temporary.

The authors themselves acknowledge that the study was a "pilot study." Pilot studies are done to determine whether it makes sense to invest in a larger more definitive study. They never provide a legitimate basis for marketing any product as effective against any symptom or health problem.

Two better-designed, longer-lasting pain studies have been negative:

Researchers at the New York College of Podiatric Medicine have reported negative results in a study of patients with heel pain. Over a 4-week period, 19 patients wore a molded insole containing a magnetic foil, while 15 patients wore the same type of insole with no magnetic foil. In both groups, 60% reported improvement, which suggests that the magnetic foil conveyed no benefit [4].

More recently, researchers at the VA Medical Center in Prescott, Arizona conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study involving 20 patients with chronic back pain. Each patient was exposed to real and sham bipolar permanent magnets during alternate weeks, for 6 hours per day, 3 days per week for a week, with a 1-week period between the treatment weeks. No difference in pain or mobility was found between the treatment and sham-treatment periods [5].
Magnets have also been claimed to increase circulation. This claim is false. If it were true, placing a magnet on the skin would make the area under the magnet become red, which it does not. Moreover, a well-designed study that actually measured blood flow has found no increase. The study involved 12 healthy volunteers who were exposed to either a 1000-gauss magnetic disk or an identically appearing disk that was not magnetic. No change in the amount or speed of blood flow was observed when either disk was applied to their arm. [6]. The magnets were manufactured by Magnetherapy, Inc, of Riviera Beach, Florida, a company that has been subjected to two regulatory actions.

Magnet Therapy

Patrick

miss djax · 10-10-2003, 12:10 PM

i went thru 2 years of horrifying physical therapy and surgeries when i had my arm rebuilt, and my physical therapist said she worked on some magnetic therapy tests in grad school...she said they found a level of efficacy *didn't say how much* but that the size of the magnets involved were huge...the small ones you would buy for shoe inserts or anything else would be too small to do anything.....so save yo' money

thats my story and im sticking to it

ms d

DBT · 10-10-2003, 06:25 PM

I agree,but I bet that it will be buisness as usual for the magnet trade for a long time come.
miss djax, I hope your arm is ok now

reprise · 10-10-2003, 06:34 PM

How bloody expensive can it be to sew a few magnetic into a woollen underlay? Apparently expensive enough that the things cost $300-$400 each.

It's a joke watching infommercials on morning television here. Multiple companies competing on the same programme for their share of the "magnetic therapy" market.

Interestingly, they do have a disclaimer stating that their products shouldn't be used by those fitted with pacemakers (well, der) or pregnant women (if that ain't CYA bullshit, I don't know what is - how in the ever loving fuck are the pathetic magnets used in "magnetic therapy" going to affect the outcome of a pregnancy in any way?).

10-07-2003, 06:55 PM	#1
DBT Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן ǝɥʇ Posts: 17,906	Magnetic therapy You all know the products,magnetic pillow cases,underlays,belts and clips for bad backs, arthritis, etc, There are claimes for healing and increased longevity. Has anyone had any good results? Any thoughts apreciated.

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10-07-2003, 10:44 PM	#2
pmurray Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia Posts: 288	Tons of people have had good results! Same as for prayer, aromatherapy, etc etc etc. The good results are in two categories: 1 - Placebo 2 - Regression to mean Peoples conditions vary over time, get worse and get better. Usually, when you buy something for it, it's at a time when the condition is relatively worse. As the condition improves back to it's usual state, people tend to credit his to whetever the bought. Most risible of all, frequently these magnets are fridge magnets. Frigde magnets differ from bar magnets in that they have alternating strips of north and south pole areas across them. You can check this yourself by sticking two fridge magnets dogether and dragging one across the other. The reason they are built this way is so that the magnetic field only extends a few millimetres beyond the magnet. For this reason, a fridge magnet will not be able to stick to a fridge if you put more than a few layers of paper between it and the metal. At best, the field of one of these things will penetrate the skin. It's absurd to suppose it would have any effect on organs, or on rebalancing your flow of chi.

10-08-2003, 06:37 PM	#3
DBT Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן ǝɥʇ Posts: 17,906	Thats about what I thought , I have been trying a 'thereputic' magnet on my back injury with no result.

10-09-2003, 10:01 AM	#4
Theophage Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Posts: 966	I hear magnets are good for fixing ailing floppy disks, and videotapes...

10-09-2003, 10:13 AM	#5
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	There was one small, pilot study published from Baylor several years that suggested there was some therapeutic benefit from magnets. Subsequent larger and better trials to confirm those initial findings instead refuted them.

10-10-2003, 12:10 PM	#8
miss djax Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phoenix Posts: 342	i went thru 2 years of horrifying physical therapy and surgeries when i had my arm rebuilt, and my physical therapist said she worked on some magnetic therapy tests in grad school...she said they found a level of efficacy didn't say how much but that the size of the magnets involved were huge...the small ones you would buy for shoe inserts or anything else would be too small to do anything.....so save yo' money thats my story and im sticking to it ms d

10-10-2003, 06:25 PM	#9
DBT Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן ǝɥʇ Posts: 17,906	I agree,but I bet that it will be buisness as usual for the magnet trade for a long time come. miss djax, I hope your arm is ok now

10-10-2003, 06:34 PM	#10
reprise Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 3,997	How bloody expensive can it be to sew a few magnetic into a woollen underlay? Apparently expensive enough that the things cost $300-$400 each. It's a joke watching infommercials on morning television here. Multiple companies competing on the same programme for their share of the "magnetic therapy" market. Interestingly, they do have a disclaimer stating that their products shouldn't be used by those fitted with pacemakers (well, der) or pregnant women (if that ain't CYA bullshit, I don't know what is - how in the ever loving fuck are the pathetic magnets used in "magnetic therapy" going to affect the outcome of a pregnancy in any way?).

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