Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 01-18-2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Shmuley mentioned his debating history with Dawkins several times in his disastrous encounter with Hitchens.

What transpired in this disastrous encounter with Hitchens?

Sheshbazzar · 01-18-2012, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The Christian right still recites the Nicene creed

I'll bet you they dont recite the anathema clause on the earliest preserved Nicaean "Creed" against the words of Arius. And that most of them are oblivious to the (catch) 22 sub-agreements appended to the so-called creed about the workings of the Nicaean church. Truman had it right when he said that "There is nothing new under the sun except the history you do not know".

Just like none of them are ever caught reciting or demanding the posting of those 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' which according to the Bible Moses placed within the Ark.

For anyone unfamiliar with these 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' written on two stone tablets, and reportedly lugged around the desert for forty years and enshrined within the Temple, here is the actual King Jimmy version for you reading pleasure.

Quote:

1. And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

2. And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.

3. And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.

4. And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.

5. And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

6. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

8. And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

9. And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

10. And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

11. Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

12. Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

13. But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

14. For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

15. Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

16. And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

17. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

18. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

20. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

24. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

25. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

27. And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

28. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of The Covenant, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. (Exodus 34)

What Preacher, Denomination, Church, Courthouse or Public monument do you find that has the guts to post these, the only authoritative TEN COMMANDMENTS ?

With THESE 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' ought also be remembered these words;

Quote:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, NEITHER SHALL YOU DIMINISH FROM IT, that ye may keep THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deut 4:20)

They are all guilty, and the more so every time they attempt to pass off one of their mutilated truncated variations as being THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Iskander · 01-19-2012, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

I'll bet you they dont recite the anathema clause on the earliest preserved Nicaean "Creed" against the words of Arius. And that most of them are oblivious to the (catch) 22 sub-agreements appended to the so-called creed about the workings of the Nicaean church. Truman had it right when he said that "There is nothing new under the sun except the history you do not know".

Just like none of them are ever caught reciting or demanding the posting of those 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' which according to the Bible Moses placed within the Ark.

For anyone unfamiliar with these 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' written on two stone tablets, and reportedly lugged around the desert for forty years and enshrined within the Temple, here is the actual King Jimmy version for you reading pleasure.

What Preacher, Denomination, Church, Courthouse or Public monument do you find that has the guts to post these, the only authoritative TEN COMMANDMENTS ?

With THESE 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' ought also be remembered these words;

Quote:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, NEITHER SHALL YOU DIMINISH FROM IT, that ye may keep THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deut 4:20)

They are all guilty, and the more so every time they attempt to pass off one of their mutilated truncated variations as being THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

This looks to me an honest statement

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...sm/command.htm

Iskander · 01-19-2012, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The Christian right still recites the Nicene creed

I'll bet you they dont recite the anathema clause on the earliest preserved Nicaean "Creed" against the words of Arius. And that most of them are oblivious to the (catch) 22 sub-agreements appended to the so-called creed about the workings of the Nicaean church. Truman had it right when he said that "There is nothing new under the sun except the history you do not know".

What do you think they should add?

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
THE CREDO

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...hism/credo.htm

semiopen · 01-19-2012, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Shmuley mentioned his debating history with Dawkins several times in his disastrous encounter with Hitchens.

What transpired in this disastrous encounter with Hitchens?

I've already posted a link to FailedMessiah which has a snippet and comments.

Full Version: Hitchens and Boteach Debate on God

They get into a little side spat about medical treatment of gentiles (on Shabbat) where I'm not sure if Hitchens claims are technically correct.

Its not so much Hitchens out debating Shmuley, more like Shmuley coming across as a pompous dickhead.

I was struck at how he mentions his debate with Dawkins several times - which Dawkins apparently never remembered.

No Robots · 01-19-2012, 07:54 AM

While it is not normally my style to write letters of condemnation, having read the book, I feel it poses a tremendous risk to the Jewish community and therefore imperative to state my halachic (Jewish legal) opinion that it is forbidden for anyone to buy or read this book, or give its author a platform in any way shape or form to discuss this topic.

--Rabbi Dr. J. Immanuel Schochet

Boteach and Schochet are contestants for the title of Chief Rabbi of Britain.

semiopen · 01-19-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

While it is not normally my style to write letters of condemnation, having read the book, I feel it poses a tremendous risk to the Jewish community and therefore imperative to state my halachic (Jewish legal) opinion that it is forbidden for anyone to buy or read this book, or give its author a platform in any way shape or form to discuss this topic.

--Rabbi Dr. J. Immanuel Schochet

Boteach and Schochet are contestants for the title of Chief Rabbi of Britain.

Being an asshole is one of the prerequisites for that job. Seems they are both qualified.

No Robots · 01-19-2012, 02:55 PM

Oops! It is Schochet's son who is competing against Boteach for the role of Britain's chief rabbi.

Boteach fires back at the Schochet clan.

No Robots · 01-19-2012, 02:58 PM

Oh, yeah, and Boteach has not declared himself a candidate for the position. He's just getting some good buzz.

Sheshbazzar · 01-19-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...sm/command.htm

Interesting how they choose to make their comparison only with Exodus 20 -that text which Moses DESTROYED-, and with Deut 5,
but totally omit any comparison with the text of those TEN COMMANDMENTS as given in Exodus 34, written by the hand of YHWH and recited by Moses into the ears of all the people, and to which they were enjoined.
(Given Deut 5, apparently either YHWH or Moses suffered from a memory lapse and forgot what words YHWH Himself had written in stone in Exodus 34

But these were the very stone tablets that allegedly Moses had in hand and placed in the Ark of the Covenant for a memorial and reminder

)

If there were a YHWH, and such a drastic change in the wording is accepted to have actually taken place, as it is reported within the texts.
Would it not be reasonable to conclude that this change was intentional and the 'Will' of YHWH? and His servant Moses.

If one writes a Will, or a Contract and never implements it, yet a month, year, or decade latter writes a much revised Will, or Contract and implements it.
Which Will or Contract is the valid Will or Contract? What becomes the state of the former and unimplemented Will or Contract?
I think most here know the answers.
Enough with the derail, don't bother with replies. Just think about it.

.

01-19-2012, 07:54 AM	#56
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	While it is not normally my style to write letters of condemnation, having read the book, I feel it poses a tremendous risk to the Jewish community and therefore imperative to state my halachic (Jewish legal) opinion that it is forbidden for anyone to buy or read this book, or give its author a platform in any way shape or form to discuss this topic. --Rabbi Dr. J. Immanuel Schochet Boteach and Schochet are contestants for the title of Chief Rabbi of Britain.

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01-19-2012, 02:55 PM	#58
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Oops! It is Schochet's son who is competing against Boteach for the role of Britain's chief rabbi. Boteach fires back at the Schochet clan.

01-19-2012, 02:58 PM	#59
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Oh, yeah, and Boteach has not declared himself a candidate for the position. He's just getting some good buzz.

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