Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MsChutzpah · 08-08-2007, 12:32 PM

A very devout Catholic woman posted this in the religious category on a forum I often visit. There are many categories on there where all can participate but the religious category is for believers only (yeah, how typical, huh? Can't be pestered by the godless!) Note the "a promise is a promise" and "a conscience not formed in truth", "replacing truth with human reasoning".

Quote:

In the Catholic faith we are baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ at infancy by our parents. Later in life we make our Confirmation (2nd part of our Baptism) and commit ourselves by our own free will (body, soul and spirit) to God through our faith. In this confirmaton we are expected to follow several precepts of the Church to fulfill our promise to God. One of those precepts is to attend Holy Mass every Sunday.

My question is...what happens to a Catholic if they break away from their faith? Are they liable for that commitment they made at their Confirmation? That confirmaton was a promise made to God and was made in the presence of Jesus in the Tabernacle. How does this affect their soul? Can they be exempt from this liability? What if they simply changed their mind?

I was surprised to read Jesus' message below because I thought...if you are a good person at heart and you love God regardless of whether you practice your faith,...certain things (i.e. breaking the promise of your confirmation) will be overlooked. Apparently, that is not the case. We are liable for everything we think, say and do. After all, a promise is a promise. Is it right to break a promise you made to God, or to anybody else?

"I am your Jesus, born Incarnate. I have come to speak to you once again about the false conscience. This is a conscience that is not formed in truth. Such a one does not recognize sin for what it is. Perhaps he has replaced truth with human reasoning. In this way, the soul may believe he is justified in picking what commandments, Church law, or dogma he will follow and accept. But when the soul comes to Me for judgment, I do not follow this erroneous thinking. I ask, 'Did you love Me enough to keep all the commandments, and if Catholic did you obey the Church law and not challenge doctrine and tradition?' "

"A false conscience is like this. There are two canoes leaving shore. A little way out from shore each canoe develops a leak. The man in the first canoe, on seeing the leak, repairs it and arrives safely to the opposite shore. The man in the second canoe, on seeing the leak, decides to ignore it. He even denies that it is there. His canoe soon sinks beneath the water – the man along with it."

"The conscience is much like this canoe. If the soul denies he is guilty of error, in My eyes his sin is still not pardoned. The law is the law. Individual consciences cannot change it. No one can debate with Me at their last judgment and convince Me that wrong is right. For I know the truth and all humanity has been given the truth. I will not be swayed by catch-all phrases such as, 'right to choose', 'feminism', or 'alternative life style'. These terms are inspired by the adversary."

"Ask for the grace to look with honesty and integrity into your own heart. It will be granted."

I simply cannot for the life of me understand how sane people can swallow this crap. Comments?

Dreadnought · 08-08-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad catholic

I ask, 'Did you love Me enough to keep all the commandments, and if Catholic did you obey the Church law and not challenge doctrine and tradition?' "

This one was cute. Notice how Jesus says "if catholic" so there is obviously different sets of rules for the different denominations. However that doesn't stop Jesus from insisting that you should not challenge doctrine and tradition. When exactly Jesus became obsessed with catholic doctrine and tradition remains unclear.

I'm also a bit mystified as to how the Mad Catholic received her message from Jesus.

Proxima Centauri · 08-09-2007, 10:32 AM

Typical religious cr*p.

HarryStine · 08-09-2007, 11:57 AM

"cr*p", indeed.

Seriously, if there is any set universal standard for morality that we all must follow (I'm not reuiring this group to accept that, but to the members of that forum it's essential) then human reasoning isn't good enough. Just living teaches us that we don't all come to the same conclusions about morality. If the members of that forum are serious about doing what God wants (provided he exists) they'll need his help to find out what that is.

MsChutzpah · 08-13-2007, 05:14 PM

Oh lawdy, don't you just love when fundies argue amongst themselves? Remember in the OP I said this was posted in the religious category where non-believers aren't allowed to reply? Well, a protestant woman came in there and was asking the catholic all sorts of questions (especially about the "IF catholic..." part. The catholic replied:

Quote:

" I could have posted this in the debate section, but out of respect for Jesus I did not want to do that."

:grin: :grin: :grin:

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08-09-2007, 10:32 AM	#3
Proxima Centauri Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: England, the EU. Posts: 2,403	Typical religious crp.*

08-09-2007, 11:57 AM	#4
HarryStine Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Augusta, Georgia Posts: 331	"cr*p", indeed. Seriously, if there is any set universal standard for morality that we all must follow (I'm not reuiring this group to accept that, but to the members of that forum it's essential) then human reasoning isn't good enough. Just living teaches us that we don't all come to the same conclusions about morality. If the members of that forum are serious about doing what God wants (provided he exists) they'll need his help to find out what that is.

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