JohNeo

I had not thought about it until recently...Paul's letter to the Colossians adds another element of paganism to Christianity (in addition to Satan):

See to it, then, that no one enslaves you by means of the worthless deceit of human wisdom, which comes from the teachings handed down by men and from the ruling spirits of the universe, and not from Christ...he is supreme over every spiritual ruler and authority.

Colossians 2:8


You have died with Christ and are set free from the ruling spirits of the universe
Colossians 2:20


So who were the "Ruling Spirits of the Universe?" As I see it, either God was not all-powerful, because there were ruling sprits before Christ came along, or "God, [the] Creator, is constantly renewing in his own image, in order to bring you a full knowledge of himself." So God wasn't too good before, or he had it all wrong but suddenly in his "infinite wisdom" he now gets it! :huh:

GakuseiDon

What version of the Bible are you using? Sounds like the RDV (Revised Doherty Version).

Javaman

Its the Today's English Version (TEV) translation (aka Good News Bible). I had to go to biblestudytools.net to find that one. I don't think I'd be using that one for textual criticism myself.

Answerer

Sounds like he is refering to Archons. But wait a second, there is no way that Paul is a gnostic.

My guess is that he was talking about either pagan gods or fallen angels.

JohNeo

It is the Good News Bible...anyway, it's the Bible I was issued when I was in the third grade, so it's definitely not the King James version, but sometimes it's more to the point. Just curiously, why do they issue this Bible to kids if it's not the "true" Bible?

I will check another version ASAP, or if you care to re-type it in another version, I'd be curious to know what Paul calls these "ruling spirits."

I have a busy day ahead at work. Can you believe that? My boss actually expects me to work! I'll check back later this evening.

JohNeo

Amaleq13

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."(YLT)

CX

This is a very dodgy bit of text that has been pondered over for centuries at least. The phrase in question is STOIXEIEN TON KOSMON

TON KOSMON means of or belong to the world, universe, natural order. STOIXEIEN is a bit more sketchy. L&S say it means "first principle" or element. The general connotation is a foundational element of something (in this case the world/universe). It is difficult to say what Paul intends here. It's definitely referring to something not part of the mundane visible world of the everyday, but beyond that it's difficult to say. It is unlikely he means "spirits" as in evil spirits or demons or other gods, because there are other perfectly good words for those things. There certainly could be a gnostic interpretation of the passage but only really if one goes in a priori with gnostic philosophy in mind. Personally I think Paul is speaking metaphorically of the "world" (i.e. the natural order) overagainst the world of the spiritual and of god.

I should add that the translation "ruling spirits" is not even in the running and looks very much like lexical gymnastics aimed a promoting a certain philosophical position.

Javaman

I'd have to agree here even with my limited knowledge. The confusion, though is apparent given the range of translations. For JohNeo, a handy link is Bible Gateway for different translations and, for study purposes, try the Blue Letter Bible.

GakuseiDon

Thanks Javaman. Good link!

Javaman

You're very welcome. I'd not seen that site until about a minute before I linked to it. I'll have to take a closer look.

ETA: Just to clarify, when I wrote, "I don't think I'd be using that one for textual criticism myself." I was referring to the translation, not the web site.