long winded fool

Maybe when he said "atheists" he was only referring to "fundy atheists."

:notworthy

orac

In exactly what way is he having a hard time?

Is the poor dear unable to accept that some people don't share his beliefs? Are the constant requests for him to provide evidence to back up his claims getting him down?

That's a common complaint from evangalists around here.

I'm tired of christians making false claims and then running away when asked to back them up with evidence. So, you're saying I should give them all a break and just stop asking them to back up their claims?

If they stop coming to this board and making unsubstantiated claims, then we can all stop asking for evidence.

Til then, I'll make do with being amused when a christian admits that he wants god to send us to hell for continually asking for evidence that would substantiate his claims.

wade-w

Please consider this a final warning. This thread will stay open only as long as the discussion is on stereotypes of atheism in general. One more reference to Magus or his thread at RR, and this thread will be locked.

winstonjen

I think that most theists blow any rejection or dislike of their religion totally out of proportion, and that they take things far too personally, and this leads to hatred towards non-believers.

The_Unknown_Banana

I think theists generally do want to "help" atheists, so that we can be saved from hell, and perhaps "experience" how wonderful it is to be in God's grace. I think they truly believe that we are missing out. To then get a slap in the face, with accusations of lying etc is not exactly heart-warming. I don't think they are generally deserving of such responses.

In saying that, I have got frustrated/mad in the past, only to regret it afterwards. It's just not worth it, and never usually persuades anyone of anything.

DMB

If I tell the truth, I do despise and dislike religion, just as I despise and dislike certain political ideas.

That does not mean that therefore I necessarily despise religious believers, and I probably wouldn't say directly to them that I despise their beliefs, since it might be hurtful and would be unlikely to achieve anything.

In the old days, I would have kept such sentiments for the private fora, but, since they have disappeared, everything here that may be intended for fellow atheists is nonetheless also visible to anyone else who cares to drop by. This is an atheist board and it provides a much-needed outlet for those immersed in a sea of theism.

I think it would be a counsel of perfection to expect us never to post anything that would upset the sensibilities of visiting theists. But I do agree that we should beware of being deliberately offensive to them.

seebs

I only sort of agree with this. While that's there, I think that there's a lot of support for the theory that the "unbelievers" described in such terms were not merely "people of no opinion" but "people who follow other religions". The majority of the discussion of "unbelievers" in the Bible refers to the rituals they engage in. Why do they engage in these rituals? Because of what they *do* believe in.

I think these people can be shocked into changing their opinions, but it takes a concerted effort at not fitting the script.

People on both sides tend to have a script in mind. Atheists often expect to see dogma, irrationality, and maybe a bit of stupidity or blind acceptance of ludicrous claims, in theists. A lot of theists expect to see atheists reject things that are right in front of them, be angry all the time, and reject conventional moral standards.

Someone whose name I've forgotten once said that, if a unicorn walked in front of a group of people, they would say "look, a horse with an arrow stuck in its head!"

Let's imagine that J. Random Theist makes an account at internet infidels. He's been told by a friend that it's a good experience, and that he can learn a lot about what atheists are really like from this board. He's even been told to expect his view of atheists to change.

He posts a "hello" message. He gets a dozen responses, most of them polite. One of them is something like "oh, good, another sheep about ready to leave the flock."

He's just gotten confirmation of all the bad stuff he's ever heard. His best guess is likely to be that the other eleven people were just playing nice, and that all of the atheists are out to attack his faith. Not "enlighten him". Not "free him". Attack something which is important to him.

You'd better believe he'll be distrustful!

The problem here is that the desire to "free" people from theism is precisely as helpful and rational as the desire to "save" people from atheism. In the end, of *course* we think our position is the right one - if we didn't, we wouldn't hold it. So, of course, we want other people to come to share our opinions. The degree to which we act on this, and our methods, vary widely, but the underlying instincts are pretty deep in humans.

I think I got off topic here. Anyway, I think that there's a lot people on both sides can do to try to dispell stereotypes, but I think the most important thing is to try to be friendly to people, even when they don't expect it. I recommend this strategy to the atheists on the pragmatic grounds that it works, and to the Christians on the grounds that it's clearly commanded by the Bible. (Which is probably, it turns out, because it works.)

brighid

Excellent post seebs!

Brighid

Calzaer

There is NO way to dispel a stereotype. The Greedy Jew has been around for centuries. The Dumb Blonde has been around since at least the founding of the country. The Fat Lonely Geeky IT Nerd will be around for a very long time to come. And don't even get started on the Teenage Hoodlum. Stereotypes are like kudzu; there's simply no way to get rid of them.

Trying to "dispel a stereotype" is a waste of time that could otherwise be productive. Be polite for politeness's sake, not because you think it's going to do any good for the overall perception of atheists.

The only thing that can happen is reinforcement of the stereotype, it will never go away. (May as well give in to the dark side and keep asking for evidence - harshly and mockingly )

Heathen Dawn

Right on! Naïveté is getting on my nerves.