Freethought & Rationalism Archive

the_cave · 09-26-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Here, though, you seem to me to be looking at ultimately sidetracking issues.

Isn't this just the question at hand? It's in the OP.

Quote:

We should be looking at the unaccounted for silence in the christian record regarding Tacitus (and Suetonius -- though we have no evidence of his popularity amongst reading christians)

FWIW it turns out Paulus Orosius used Suetonius, though there are some interesting questions regarding his reference to Neronean persecution.

For one thing, it's odd that Orisius follows Suetonius, and Sulpicius Severus follows Tacitus, but they both put similiar information about Christian persecution in the same place, i.e. when they mention the fire (that Nero was the first to torture Christians, that he tried to eradicate the name, that he killed Peter and Paul. It feels like there is a common source behind both, that is neither Suetonius or Tacitus, but what do I know. I can't make any sense out of it right now.)

Quote:

, the problems within the passage now found in 15.44, regarding narrative cohesion in the context (how it fits, or doesn't), its communicative content (its witnessing material, the rhetorical poor quality) and factual content (the error about Pilate, the knowledge about "christians" at the time of Nero and how one can spot them).

Again, all conceded. I don't think the passage as it stands could have been authentic.

spin · 09-27-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_cave

FWIW it turns out Paulus Orosius used Suetonius, though there are some interesting questions regarding his reference to Neronean persecution.

For one thing, it's odd that Orisius follows Suetonius, and Sulpicius Severus follows Tacitus,but they both put similiar information about Christian persecution in the same place, i.e. when they mention the fire (that Nero was the first to torture Christians, that he tried to eradicate the name, that he killed Peter and Paul. It feels like there is a common source behind both, that is neither Suetonius or Tacitus, but what do I know. I can't make any sense out of it right now.)

Funny isn't it though that Suetonius shows no knowledge of the christians in relation to the fire? Orosius got the idea from someone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_cave

Quote:

, the problems within the passage now found in 15.44, regarding narrative cohesion in the context (how it fits, or doesn't), its communicative content (its witnessing material, the rhetorical poor quality) and factual content (the error about Pilate, the knowledge about "christians" at the time of Nero and how one can spot them).

Again, all conceded. I don't think the passage as it stands could have been authentic.

So you also are going to play the pick-fly-dust-off-the-buttered-bread game. This is popular among christians with the TF.

spin

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