dongiovanni1976x

Leviticus is a Jewish source stating that the seventh day is a Sabbath (shabbath) and equates it with the term a holy convocation (miqra).

RED DAVE

From RED DAVE:
From Larsguy47:
Like I said, you claim to be the Messiah and therefore a Jew and you neglect the seder. Christians can do what they want with the Seder but not Jews. If you're an observant Jew, you have a Seder.

You don't get away with that bubbileh. Tsk-tsk.

RED DAVE

Doug Shaver

The assertion that all X is Y does not imply X = Y.

In particular, if the seventh day was declared a sabbath and also a convocation, it does not follow that all convocations were sabbaths. Even more particularly, there is no justification here for assuming that there were sabbaths other than the seventh weekday.

Doug Shaver

The context of her comment was: She was responding to my post in which I asked her whether, in Jewish tradition or history, there was ever a sabbath other than the seventh day of the week.

dongiovanni1976x

In the genus "holy convocation" there are species called "sabbaths" and in this sense all sabbaths are holy convocations but not all holy convocations are by necessity sabbaths. However there seems to be evidence that adjectives are applied to the word sabbath, (e.g. Shabbat HaGadol for Passover) as well as the Day of Attonement mentioned in Leviticus 23 (among others).
Since Shabbathown comes from the exact same root as shabbat then what reason do we have to deny that this is not another kind of sabbath which just happens to coincide with a particular holy convocation- in this particular case, the Day of Attonement. It would seem that Passover is no different. In fact it seems to be why there are so many Jewish sites that reference Passover as a very special kind of Sabbath.

Doug Shaver

You quoted a passage from Leviticus indicating that the author referred to sabbaths other than the seventh weekday. That passage did not necessarily control common usage several centuries after the book was compiled.

The question relevant to this discussion is whether, when a first-century Jew said, "The next day was the sabbath," any listener could justifiably have assumed that he meant "The next day was the seventh day of the week." Or, if the context did not make it obvious, would the listener have had to ask the speaker, "Which sabbath do you mean?"

dongiovanni1976x

Either there is justification to be found in Leviticus for assuming there were Sabbaths other than the seventh weekday or there is no justification. When you say, What are you suggesting? It seems like you are shifting the goal posts on me. I thought all you were asking for was a Jewish source to support the claim that there were other Sabbaths aside from the seventh day Sabbath.

Either the tenth day of the seventh month was a shabat (a day to rest/cease work etc) or it was not. Leviticus 23:32, a Jewish source, states that it was and that no work could be done on that day. The term in question in this thread is in reference to the Greek adjective “megas” when applied to the noun Sabbath as in John 19:31…and whether Roman Catholicism, which supposedly calls their special days, “High Days” is the reason we see this adjective applied in John 19:31 or if this is truly called a great/high day because it was the weekly Sabbath and that it happened to coincide with the Passover that year (or some other reason etc)…I personally don’t see any problem with seeing multiple uses of the word Sabbath as the example in Leviticus suggests.

Again, IMHO, if you look at John “vertically” with the other gospel accounts (instead of “horizontally” etc) you can see why Jesus is crucified when the lambs are being slaughtered at noon on the day of preparation for the Passover and then it makes perfect sense to see that as a high Sabbath etc…problem is when literalist want to reconcile this with Jesus eating the Passover meal later that evening as he does in the synoptic accounts. I am just interested in where that adjective came from and why it is applied…

What do you think?

Doug Shaver

The goal posts were set by the argument attempting to resolve an apparent contradiction in the New Testament accounts of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. Your objection is well taken if you are attempting to defend inerrancy as fundamentalists construe inerrancy, but the fact remains that unless common usage of the time allowed otherwise, an assertion that he died and was buried on the day before the sabbath implies that this happened on the sixth day of the week.

I will concede that in hindsight I should have phrased my challenge differently. The issue is not just whether there was, as a strict matter of fact, more than one sabbath, but also whether this fact, if it was a fact, was reflected in the common speech of first-century Jews. That is what I meant, and I apologize if my imprecison muddied the waters.