outhouse

Never happened.

Not sure that has historicity either, dont think that was ever a real prediction by he Jesus charactor.


I agree. We have the swords at his arrest, the possibility for insurrection is there. Later glossed over to avoid being persecuted by Romans the exact way the books were written for a Roman audience in mind.



The way Gluke and Gmatthew parrallel Moses and Herod, it is evangelicals spew as you say.

stephan huller

For me at least, you see the majesty of the Pentateuch - a narrative all about 'the entry into the Land' in a Jubilee or its presage - and then this idea of a 'reality show' type narrative that the evangelicals claim the gospel is. It doesn't make sense. The gospel had its work cut out overtaking the authority of the Pentateuch. It's like writing the sequel to Star Wars or the Godfather. You can't do it with just a hand-held camera and a microphone. The narrative had to be bigger, better with more 'special effects' and magic. It had to be set in a Jubilee. It just had to be.

outhouse

The OT held great importance to these Proselytes who found a way to keep the one monotheistic god and their foreskin.

OT influnece while paralleling the Emporers divinity, Its just the extreme Hellenizing of Judaism for those not from Israel.


Judaism grew to big and diverse in the first century, and more or less was perverted by Hellenist.

stephan huller

The gospel is the ultimate expression of the party which objected to permanent houses of God (read Stephen's speech in Acts). In Samaritan culture this group was described as Dosithean. I don't know what their Jewish name was. But surely some Jews objected to a permanent house of God.

Clivedurdle

Is there not a huge discussion throughout the Hebrew Bible about this? God with us for example? The whole discussion about should they actually have kings?

The Battle of Marathon was primarily between a people who thought they could talk to their gods themselves - priesthood of all believers. and those who thought there should be anointed priests.

This goes back to nomadic andcity dwellers.

Judaism must have had similar tensions. Did Judaism turn from a shamanistic type religion to a formal priest one after Cyrus,where the gods are put into buildings with attendants?

Sheshbazzar

No matter what the subject is, there are always some Jews that will object.
Show one verse to five Jews and you will likely get eight differing interpretations.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Stephan huller,

I'm really enjoying this thread.

We should remember that Lucas wanted to remake the Flash Gordon serial called "Space Soldiers," but he could not get the rights to it, and so he did the more original "Star Wars" instead.

I like the idea of placing the narrative in 12 BCE, in the 15th year of Augustus and deducing its origin in Macedonia. We can go further and say that the only place that would have had a large Jewish community interested in this stuff would have been the City of Thessaloniki (Salonika). We can suggest that as the birthplace of Christian narrative.

I have suggested in the past the Jesus story is a retcon (retroactive continuity - alteration of the facts of a fictional story) of the John story, so perhaps it was the John Story that was originally set in the year of the Jubilee 12 BCE. That would be the year that John came out of the wilderness and was executed by Herod.

The John-Jesus switch can be compared with the two Green Lantern characters.

The first Green Lantern, Alan Scott, was introduced in 1940 (He was an engineer who became a broadcaster and then a radio mogul). His comic was cancelled in 1948 and his last appearance was in 1951.

The second Green Lantern, Hal Jordan, was a test pilot. He began in 1959.

The original Green Lantern, Alan Scott, often appeared in the second Green Lantern's comic book in the 1960's, but in a parallel universe which could interact with the GL. Hal Jordan's universe. In 1986, GL. Alan Scott became part of the same universe as GL. Hal Jordan.

In 2011, GL.Alan Scott was again relegated to a parallel universe, this time with no interaction with GL Hal Jordan. In 2012, it was revealed that this Green Lantern is actually gay, although originally he had been a married, father of two children.

The permutations of the Green Lantern character is probably no stranger than the permutation of the John character.



Warmly,

Jay Raskin

stephan huller

Thanks Jay. There is a consistent mix up between Herod the Great and Herod Antipas which I don't think is entirely accidental. Look at the Gospel of Nicodemus 9:

And doesn't the Jewish refrain 'we wish Caesar to be king over us not Jesus' take on a different sense if the Jews had just been freshly conquered by the Romans (= at the time of Herod the Great).

DCHindley

Isn't the Jubilee year supposed to be the "50th" year? It is the year that follows the 7th sabbatical year. The formula is 7*7+1.

And then there is the pesky issue of whether Sabbatical years were reckoned from Spring to Spring, or Fall to Fall, among Jews or Samaritans. The Mishna knows nothing about a fall epoch for "7th years" but in the Gemera of the Talmud, the Rabbis concluded they should be reconed according to Fall epoch, but this may have arisen be because they were ruled by foreigners, not a prince of Israel.

The following table assumes a Fall epoch. If a Spring epoch is meant, I'm not sure whether to consider it in the Spring following the Fall of the year indicated. If a Jubilee year, it would be a year later than the sabbatical year, regardless of the epoch used.

701.2	700.2	700.3	2 Kings 18:32 & Isa 36:17
596.2	595.2
589.2	588.2	588.0	A year of release was "recently" Jer 34:15
582.2	581.2
526.2	525.2
519.2	518.2		Hag 2:15-19 tenuous
512.2	511.2
176.2	175.2
169.2	168.2
162.2	161.2	162.2	1 Macc 6:49,53 Antioches IV lifts siege
43.2	42.2
36.2	35.2	36.4	Herod takes Jerusalem
27.8	28.8
34.8	35.8
41.8	42.8	40.9	Caligula's statue affair
69.8	70.8
111.8	112.8
118.8	119.8
125.8	126.8
132.8	133.8

DCH

stephan huller

Some apparently could be mistaken into thinking there was one Herod throughout the gospel. From the Catena Aurea: