Evoken

Yep they are, it is just that they are different states.

Well in my case it is the Gnostic scriptures.

Magus55

Generally they aren't talking about different people of the Trinity. Chili just happens to believe in extremely heretical and unorthodox Catholicism. A lot of Catholics venerate Mary way too much, but Chili takes it farther than most Catholics I have seen.

Magdlyn

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, Clivedurdle. Yes, Magdalene and Magdlyn are etymologically linked.

Do I, in claiming the screen name Magdlyn, suggest I have a relationship with the Magdalene? Yes, I do.

Are Mary M and Mary V the same person? Yes and no. They are both aspects of Sophia. Mary V the Upper Sophia, officiating at the birth cave, the way down. Mary M as l the Lower Sophia, officiating at the cave representing the death of the body and return of the Psyche to Pneuma, the exodus.

Chili

No, I did not quite say that they are the same, in fact, they are very much opposite to each other which easy to see if you compare the Notre Dame with de Madeleine in Paris. Yet, the Madeleine is strikingly beautiful and was designed by a mind that was far greater than what she represents to us. Magdalene is Martha in the "Mary and Martha parable."

On earth the trinity is the same and I think that Catholics and protestants have the same trinity but if we have saints in heaven they would see this different. After all, it is our mandate to obtain the mind of God and who needs the HS if you are God? I think they are called "the Church Triumphant."

Do you recognize the foundation for this now?

Chili

This goes right to the heart of our free will argument. Once the two Mary's become one peace on earth is restored because the 'catfight' in our mind is over (this was called "the monkies make noises overhead" in A River-merchant wife: a letter). Obviously the crucifixion of our ego is a prerequisite for the two Mary's to become one but that is perhaps a little over-dramatized in the Gosples because it happens often in Catholicism but nobody recognizes this as such (or we could have no saints in heaven). Needless to say is that it is wrong to assume that Jesus died for our sins because he told us to die for our own and to accomplish that we need Mary to atone with Magdalene.

Herod represents the Immanent will and Pilate the rational will of humans and when they become friends man will be truly free.

Clivedurdle

I am a bear of little brain! Could someone please explain how two people can be separate on earth but become one in heaven?

I know I brought up Jung but I have no previous experience of all this two Mary's and Sophia stuff!

I quoted something from Nazarenus to the effect that it is mistranslations and interpretations that cause us to think Mary and the Magdalene are separate.

It is very easy to construct the most amazing convuluted stuff from misunderstandings! Can we be clear about anything basic here?

Clivedurdle

Magus55

I'm not too sure Chili is that extreme! As I understand catholic doctrine, Mary was made Queen of Heaven in the nineteenth century. Now logically that means the Godhead becomes 4 - God, Jesus, Holy Spirit and Mary, if you accept the catholic premise that the church can make doctrine!

I am from a pentecostal background so I naturally have no problem with the Holy Spirit being part of the Trinity. I am also aware of strong catholic pentecostal traditions, so do not have the aversion to catholicism that is seen for example in northern Ireland.

I am sympathetic to attempts to feminise the Godhead, which this seems to be an example of. There are very strong arguments that Judaim, Xianity and Islam are examples of patriarchal ways of thinking that replaced matriarchal societies.

We are probably discussing the interactions between how we psychologically understand the world, and the religious symbols we create to give meaning. Lucy Goodison, Moving Heaven and Earth and other books by her discuss this.

Lucy

Clivedurdle

The book mentions a few more dichotomies - Heaven and hell, good and evil, God and Satan!

Chili

It's called the "convergence of the twain" and Hardy has a poem by that name.

I think it is generally agreed that Mary and Magdalene were the same and yet they were different. Mary is heavenly and Magdalene is earthly, Mary is round and Magdalene is flat (earth is still flat if heaven is round), Mary presides over the Tree of Life and Magdalene over the Tree of Knowledge within the same mind so it is wrong to think that they are two persons. It is also wrong to think that Mary ever was on earth because that would make her sinfull and that is just not true (besides, heretics would probably rape her).

The only way that they can become one is when Magdalene is called into the upper room (back into Eden=paradise regained), where reason is placed subservient to intuition (the Tree of Knowledge overshadowed by the Tree of Life.

Magdlyn

Clive,

It is my understanding that the Holy Pneuma (Spirit) is already Mary/Upper Sophia.

She alights in Jesus as a dove (common goddess symbol, ever notice that?) at his baptism. This is Her son, with whom She is pleased. Then he is sent on his mission, to rescue the lower Sophia, Mary M. The 7 demons represent the 7 planets/spheres-orbits/heavens of the Hellenistic world, each one a transformation station to higher consciousness.

I highly rec you read:

Elaine Pagels, The Gnostic Gospels.

Jesus and the Lost Goddess, by Freke and Gandy.

The Woman with the Alabaster Jar, by Starbird