Toto

Actually, it doesn't. I doubt if you can find a scholar who thinks that this is anything other than myth.

I don't think that was what motivated the Zealots. Why do you think so?

Quite imaginative


Why is this evidence believable? You have yet to establish that. Even scholars, who are mostly Christian, cannot seem to agree on anything other than "someone was crucified - we don't know who or where or when exactly, or precisely why."

outhouse

No it would be on you to provide anyone who thinks pauls persecution is mythology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

ConclusionCalling Paul "a remarkable man", Mark Powell suggests approaching Paul's writings in light of two "sobering thoughts":

First, we are reading the works of a martyr. He suffered gravely for proclaiming the gospel as he did and eventually died for his beliefs. He cared so deeply about what he had to say that he was willing to endure humiliation, physical torment, and ultimately death in order to say it.

Second, we are reading the works of a convert (at least in some sense of the term). Before he became a follower of Jesus, Paul actually tried to destroy the Christian church.... Something happened to transform him from an infamous enemy of that faith into its most prominent promoter and spokesperson, and from a man willing to kill for his convictions to a man willing to die for them.[5].233



Zealots were motivated because they were oppressed by Romans and corruption in the temple


No imagination, money is mentioned many times in the gospel. So much so, mythology states the cause of his death is for tipping money tables over in the temple. In Gluke it states sedition, and not paying taxes.


Galileans were mostly known as zealots during this period.



Scholars do agree on more then just what your stating, and most are not christian. I do not follow apologetically biased opinions

outhouse

it doesnt mention this is all mythology and that scholars discount it as such. your turn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

Before becoming a follower of Jesus, Paul zealously persecuted the newly-forming Christian church, trying to destroy it. He likely traveled from synagogue to synagogue, urging the punishment of Jews who accepted Jesus as the messiah.[5] He held the coats of those who stoned Stephen, the first Christian martyr, to death.[Acts 7:58; 8:1; 22:20] He also went from house to house, dragging both men and women Christian believers to prison.[8:3] He caused believers to be bound and probably tortured in an attempt to get them to deny their faith in Christ. When they refused, he voted to have them condemned to death.[6:10-11] [22:4,19]


This also goes against OP stating paul is looking for early Christians in Synagogues

outhouse

PS you may want to read Candida's article/book on persecution and mythology

Toto

Have you looked at the footnote? It goes to an undergraduate textbook (or via: amazon.co.uk). "Powell presents disputed and controversial issues fairly, neither dictating conclusions nor privileging skepticism over faith-based perspectives." In other words, this accomodates the overwhelmingly Christian undergraduate market for Biblical pablum.

Your quote only indicates that a Christian apologist has posted that to wikipedia.

This is not the level of discussion we are trying to have here.

Chili

I like the contradiction of a mystery religion spreading like wildfire all over the land.

The 'one God' of a mystery religion is not to worship him, but 'be' him instead and that is what the mystery is all about.

Christian-ity must necessarily be a fraud, much like trying to get to heaven on the high horse you are riding, wherein the mystery is in brewing your own salvation recipe to get there.

Toto

Please give an exact reference to any portion you think relates to this discussion in Candida Moss' The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom (or via: amazon.co.uk)



And I don't know why certain members of this forum continually refer to female scholars by their first name. It's disrespectful.

outhouse

You dont have the knowledge to discount or refute Powell's statements. Of course you cant so you dont even try, you just attack his credentials because of your failure to attack his knowledge.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Allan_Powell

Personal Data This section is in a list format that may be better presented using prose. You can help by converting this section to prose, if appropriate. Editing help is available. (January 2013)

07 05 1953 born in Gainesville, Florida
08 27 1980 ordained (American Lutheran Church, now Evangelical Lutheran Church in America)
07 03 1995 married to Melissa Curtis Powell
[edit] Education1975 BA Texas Lutheran College (Seguin, Texas)
1980 MDiv Trinity Lutheran Seminary (Columbus, Ohio)
1987 PhD Union Theological Seminary (Richmond, Virginia)
[edit] Awards and Special Honors2006 Award of Merit–Biblical Interpretation Article: “Where You Put Your Treasure” in The Lutheran (Associated Press in Religion)
2003 Award of Merit–Denominational Feature Article: “Contemporary Christian Music: What Can We Learn?” in Lutheran Partners (Associated Press in Religion)
2003 Book of the Year: Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music (Association of Recorded Sound Collections)
2000 Award of Excellence–Biographical Profile: “Marsha’s Tears: An Orphan of the Church” in Christian Century (Associated Press in Religion)
1998 Endowed Chair in New Testament (Trinity Lutheran Seminary)
1989 Outstanding Young Graduate Award (Texas Lutheran College)
[edit] Bibliography: Books Written or Edited by Mark Allan PowellJesus as a Figure in History: Fully Revised and Expanded Second Edition. Louisville: Westminster John Knox, 2012
Harper Collins Bible Dictionary. Revised Third Edition. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 2011. General Editor.
Harper Collins Bible Dictionary. Condensed Edition. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 2009. Editor.
Introducing the New Testament. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2009.
Methods for Matthew. Cambridge Methods in Biblical Interpretation. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2009. Editor and co-author.
Opening the Book of Faith: Lutheran Insights for Bible Study. Minneapolis: Augsburg Fortress, 2008. With Diane Jacobson and Stan Olson.
What Do They Hear?: How To Bridge the Gap Between Preacher and Pew. Nashville: Abingdon, 2007
Giving To God: The Good News of Biblical Stewardship. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2005.
Loving Jesus. Minneapolis: Fortress, 2004.
Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music. Boston: Hendrickson, 2002
Chasing the Eastern Star: Adventures in Biblical Reader-Response Criticism. Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 2001
Matthew. The Harper-Collins Bible Commentary Series. San Francisco: Harper-Collins, 2000.
Who Do You Say That I Am? Essays on New Testament Christology. With David R. Bauer. Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 1999.
The New Testament Today. Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 1999.
The Jesus Debate: Modern Historians Investigate the Life of Christ. Oxford: Lion Publishing Co., 1999
Mark: God’s Grace in Action. Inspire Series. Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1998.
Jesus As A Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee. Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 1998.
A Fortress Introduction to . . . The Gospels. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1998.
Epiphany, Proclamation 6--Series B. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1996.
Treasures New and Old: Essays on the Gospel of Matthew. With David R. Bauer. Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1996.
God With Us: A Pastoral Theology of Matthew's Gospel. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1995.
What Is Narrative Criticism? A New Approach to the Bible. British edition, with foreword by N. T. Wright. London: SPCK, 1993.
The Bible and Modern Literary Criticism: A Critical Assessment and Annotated Bibliography. New York: Greenwood Press, 1992.
Advent/Christmas. Proclamation 5--Series A. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1992.
What Are They Saying About Acts? New York: Paulist Press, 1991.
Witnesses to the Word: Mission 90 Bible Study/Witness. Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1991. Editor and co-author.
What Is Narrative Criticism? Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1990.
What Are They Saying About Luke? New York: Paulist Press, 1989.

Chili

Chili

Are you on Paul's side here, or is it just me?