Thomas II

Same here. I have no religious agenda nor faith in any particular religion nor god. We are simply using the text we have at hand,the Gospels.
The reference to the genealogy is probably to assert his claim to the lineage to king David. Mary was said to follow the same line too.
I bought the book today. Gonna read it. We'll see...

Wallener

Interestingly, the Samaritan Messianic tradition has it that the Messiah will come from the house of Joseph.

Joan of Bark

Or Joseph was trying to cover up the fact that he had premarital sex with Mary.

John A. Broussard

Oh ye of little faith.

The medieval artists knew who the biological father of Jesus was. There are even woodcuts showing what looks like a hose coming down from heaven and going under Mary's skirt.

Joan of Bark

Really? Where can I find them? I love medieval religious art.

Tholzel

<<It would mean that Herod did not think the child should rule or be part of his inheritance, ergo Pilate wouldn't consider such a child to have even a vague legitimate claim, and probably consider such a person to be a severe threat to peace. All that matter's is Herod's will and Augustus's execution of said will. >>

But Herod died years before Jesus was hauled up before Pilate. That Herod ordered the children of Bethleham slaughtered suggest quite strongly that he was terrified of Antipater's First-born assuming the title.

Tholzel

Originally Posted by Dr_Paine
<<Why reach for complex theories when the most obvious one will suffice? Joseph was likely the father of Jesus. Consider the genealogies of Jesus through Joseph listed in the "gospels.� >>

William if Occum would agree. However, what this more complex theory brings to the table is to solve the problem of why Pilate let Jesus go when Jesus answered in the affirmative that he was King of the Jews.

It also completely transforms the Gospels from a totally unbelieveable sugar-coated fairy tale, to a saga far more in keeping with human nature: A very ambitious Mary carries the prospective heir to the throne, is pursued by the King (Herod) who wishes to kill her as yet unborn heir, and does kill her husband.

Mary then remarries Joseph (who I propose is Joseph of Aramethia), another high-born person and the father of James--a high Temple priest and the step-briother of Jesus. (Joseph is NOT a hewer of wood!) Of course Catholics have to jump through hoops to keep the paternity of Jesus "clean"--that is, unsullied by sexual congress, which is why you don;t hear a peep about Joseph in all of the Gospels. (Can you imagine a history of the son of the God and no mention at all of his father? Catholics are terrified that some sex may have been involved.)

vsop44

I read somewhere a while back that Jesus ' father was a roman soldier by the name of Ben Panthera and he would either have had an affair with Mary or raped her . When his commanding officer discovered that he had made a girl pregnant he moved him to the northern frontier of the roman empire where he died and is buried in what is now Germany . As for Mary to prevent her from being stoned to death , Joseph , an older widower , accepted to marry her .

John A. Broussard

I'm going to do some searching to find the best one I remember so distinctly. Will put the link in this thread when I find it.

I share your enthusiasm for medieval religious art, though reform stuff like Durer are my favorites.

Tholzel

Yes, that tale has been around a while, and stories like that always seem more believable when there are full names and locations. but ask yourself when a Roman Commander cared one whit what one of his boys did with the Jewish rabble. He might have been reprimaned if he had cuaght a disease from Mary, but to make her pregnant--why that was practically a gift.