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Old 06-22-2005, 10:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dr_Paine
As I have no faith in the divine authorship of the Bible, "I have no horse in this race." However, one wonders why the reference to Joseph in the genealogy of Jesus. :huh:
Same here. I have no religious agenda nor faith in any particular religion nor god. We are simply using the text we have at hand,the Gospels.
The reference to the genealogy is probably to assert his claim to the lineage to king David. Mary was said to follow the same line too.
I bought the book today. Gonna read it. We'll see...
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dr_Paine
" However, one wonders why the reference to Joseph in the genealogy of Jesus. :huh:
Interestingly, the Samaritan Messianic tradition has it that the Messiah will come from the house of Joseph.
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:59 PM   #23
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Joseph was about to divorce Mary when he found out she was pregnant...
He knew he was not the father...
Or Joseph was trying to cover up the fact that he had premarital sex with Mary.
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:13 PM   #24
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Or Joseph was trying to cover up the fact that he had premarital sex with Mary.
Oh ye of little faith.

The medieval artists knew who the biological father of Jesus was. There are even woodcuts showing what looks like a hose coming down from heaven and going under Mary's skirt.
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:17 PM   #25
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Oh ye of little faith.

The medieval artists knew who the biological father of Jesus was. There are even woodcuts showing what looks like a hose coming down from heaven and going under Mary's skirt.
Really? Where can I find them? I love medieval religious art.
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Old 06-23-2005, 06:58 AM   #26
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<<It would mean that Herod did not think the child should rule or be part of his inheritance, ergo Pilate wouldn't consider such a child to have even a vague legitimate claim, and probably consider such a person to be a severe threat to peace. All that matter's is Herod's will and Augustus's execution of said will. >>

But Herod died years before Jesus was hauled up before Pilate. That Herod ordered the children of Bethleham slaughtered suggest quite strongly that he was terrified of Antipater's First-born assuming the title.
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Old 06-23-2005, 07:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dr_Paine
<<Why reach for complex theories when the most obvious one will suffice? Joseph was likely the father of Jesus. Consider the genealogies of Jesus through Joseph listed in the "gospels.� >>

William if Occum would agree. However, what this more complex theory brings to the table is to solve the problem of why Pilate let Jesus go when Jesus answered in the affirmative that he was King of the Jews.

It also completely transforms the Gospels from a totally unbelieveable sugar-coated fairy tale, to a saga far more in keeping with human nature: A very ambitious Mary carries the prospective heir to the throne, is pursued by the King (Herod) who wishes to kill her as yet unborn heir, and does kill her husband.

Mary then remarries Joseph (who I propose is Joseph of Aramethia), another high-born person and the father of James--a high Temple priest and the step-briother of Jesus. (Joseph is NOT a hewer of wood!) Of course Catholics have to jump through hoops to keep the paternity of Jesus "clean"--that is, unsullied by sexual congress, which is why you don;t hear a peep about Joseph in all of the Gospels. (Can you imagine a history of the son of the God and no mention at all of his father? Catholics are terrified that some sex may have been involved.)
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Old 06-23-2005, 08:07 AM   #28
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I read somewhere a while back that Jesus ' father was a roman soldier by the name of Ben Panthera and he would either have had an affair with Mary or raped her . When his commanding officer discovered that he had made a girl pregnant he moved him to the northern frontier of the roman empire where he died and is buried in what is now Germany . As for Mary to prevent her from being stoned to death , Joseph , an older widower , accepted to marry her .
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Old 06-23-2005, 08:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Joan of Bark
Really? Where can I find them? I love medieval religious art.
I'm going to do some searching to find the best one I remember so distinctly. Will put the link in this thread when I find it.

I share your enthusiasm for medieval religious art, though reform stuff like Durer are my favorites.
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Old 07-22-2005, 11:10 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by vsop44
I read somewhere a while back that Jesus ' father was a roman soldier by the name of Ben Panthera and he would either have had an affair with Mary or raped her . When his commanding officer discovered that he had made a girl pregnant he moved him to the northern frontier of the roman empire where he died and is buried in what is now Germany . As for Mary to prevent her from being stoned to death , Joseph , an older widower , accepted to marry her .
Yes, that tale has been around a while, and stories like that always seem more believable when there are full names and locations. but ask yourself when a Roman Commander cared one whit what one of his boys did with the Jewish rabble. He might have been reprimaned if he had cuaght a disease from Mary, but to make her pregnant--why that was practically a gift.
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