Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 03-17-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

...jesus was popular more for his anti-taxation preaching among the poor who were ALL overtaxed, then the religious preaching of coming kingdom of god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please, we are tired of these myth fables that you invent. You have NO source for YOUR anti-taxation Jesus.

We have FOUR Canonized Myth Fables we don't need any more.

In the NT, Jesus paid his taxes and that of at least one of his disciples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

..since when does sending peter fishing count as paying taxes. he did not pull out his coin purse and pay it did he??

oh and written by romans were not going to get the whole anti tax message, the fact some made it through, means they hid much more toning it down...

There is NO anti-taxation Jesus in the NT and no anti tax message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

dont question my mythology practice's regarding historicity, atleast I have a standard

That is PRECISELY what is necessary. Your post MUST be questioned.

stephan huller · 03-17-2012, 11:27 PM

No in answer to your question the Hebrew term yesh appears in the Pentateuch - for instance when Jacob is having his vision in front of mount Gerizim and he sees the angels going up and down. The early Jewish sources say that the name of the god he saw was a power named yesh.

stephan huller · 03-17-2012, 11:32 PM

Abulafia says that the power enthroned in heaven named israel who stands between god almighty and mankind should have his name read yesh (= 'there are') ral (= the number '231') because it points to the existence of 231 heavenly gates.

Sheshbazzar · 03-17-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

There is NO anti-taxation Jesus in the NT and no anti tax message.

The 'Render unto Caesar...' position (Matt 22:17-21, Mk 12:14-17, Lk 20:22-25) certainly seems to indicate that the stories lead character had no objections to the paying of taxes to the Roman government.

(which in fact, would only further reinforce that these texts were Roman produced political propaganda composed with an eye towards counteracting Jewish rebellion, and employed to manipulate Jewish opinions into positons more amenable to to Roman control.)

outhouse · 03-17-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

There is NO anti-taxation Jesus in the NT and no anti tax message.

he was put on a cross for tax evasion / sedition according to luke.

he is said to have preached to tax collectors, "all" at one point came to listen to him speak

and even had one give his profits all back after listening to jesus.

even had a tax collector as a close follower. probably gave him free travel without taxation.

all jews had a problem and hatred of romans and taxation, yet if we follow your normal M.O. and claim evidence from silence. Then there is a huge issue here

stephan huller · 03-17-2012, 11:34 PM

The divine power yesh in Modern Hasidism:

http://books.google.com/books?id=H99...heaven&f=false

outhouse · 03-17-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

The 'Render unto Caesar...' certainly seems to indicate that the stories lead character had no objections to the paying taxes of to the Roman government.
(which in fact, would only further reinforce that these texts were Roman produced propaganda composed to counteract Jewish rebellion, and manipulate Jewish opinions.

you know this better then you leed on.

you also know he was questioned with his life on the line for tax evasion, and chose the middle ground.

if theres any historicity to ut at all

stephan huller · 03-17-2012, 11:35 PM

The real issue again is just whether the specific form yeshu - the theoretical third person of form of yesh in Middle Hebrew - was originally used but censored out of Jewish literature by either the fear of Christians or Christians themselves.

outhouse · 03-17-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

The divine power yesh in Modern Hasidism:

http://books.google.com/books?id=H99...heaven&f=false

thank you

I will look into it, tomorrow

tonight im done as im working early tomorrow

Sheshbazzar · 03-17-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

The 'Render unto Caesar...' position (Matt 22:17-21, Mk 12:14-17, Lk 20:22-25) certainly seems to indicate that the stories lead character had no objections to the paying of taxes to the Roman government.

(which in fact, would only further reinforce that these texts were Roman produced political propaganda composed with an eye towards counteracting Jewish rebellion, and employed to manipulate Jewish opinions into positons more amenable to to Roman control.)

you know this better then you leed on.

you also know he was questioned with his life on the line for tax evasion, and chose the middle ground.

Where within these texts is he charged with tax evasion?

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03-17-2012, 11:27 PM	#232
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	No in answer to your question the Hebrew term yesh appears in the Pentateuch - for instance when Jacob is having his vision in front of mount Gerizim and he sees the angels going up and down. The early Jewish sources say that the name of the god he saw was a power named yesh.

03-17-2012, 11:32 PM	#233
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Abulafia says that the power enthroned in heaven named israel who stands between god almighty and mankind should have his name read yesh (= 'there are') ral (= the number '231') because it points to the existence of 231 heavenly gates.

03-17-2012, 11:34 PM	#236
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The divine power yesh in Modern Hasidism: http://books.google.com/books?id=H99...heaven&f=false

03-17-2012, 11:35 PM	#238
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The real issue again is just whether the specific form yeshu - the theoretical third person of form of yesh in Middle Hebrew - was originally used but censored out of Jewish literature by either the fear of Christians or Christians themselves.

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