Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Lord Emsworth · 08-14-2011, 01:12 AM

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Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Gen 1:20 talks of birds flying in the face (פנים) of the Raqia of heaven. The birds don't fly in the Raqia, but in its face, ie before it. That which has a face is solid.

(Emphasis mine) Are you certain that is correct? If I am not mistaken, 'paniym' occurs in Gen 1:2 too, even twice. One time as the face of the deep, the other as face of the waters. Neither is solid.

The word for "deep" is "tehom" the Hebrew cognate of Akkadian Tiamat, the watery chaos monster. Gen 1:2 sublimates the Mesopotamian battle before creation, the same battle hidden behind Isaiah 27:1, which talks of Leviathan (Lotan is the watery chaos monster in Ugarit).

Yeah, but it is not solid. :Cheeky:

James_M · 08-14-2011, 10:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Evad

The Bible is often mistaken as having stated in some way that there was a solid dome structure above the surface of the earth. This is based upon the ideas popular in Europe during the dark ages. At that time illustrations in Bibles and encyclopedias were presented of this solid dome with sluice holes which allowed rain to fall through.

Church father Augustine, Flavius Jospehus, and the author(s) of the Book of Enoch all interpret the firmament as a solid dome like structure(Josephus calls it a "crystalline". All of these pre-date the dark ages, Josephus and Enoch considerably pre-date it. This is pretty basic knowledge for anyone who studies the bible and ancient judeo-christian literature. why are you so unaware of it ?

Further the story doesn't make any sense with your interpretation( i.e. how could an "expanse" separate water above from water below ?). but a solid dome interpretation fits in with the context of the story.

(not to mention that your interpretation is linguistically improbable, as others have clearly shown you).

something is weird here. why are you defending such an untenable position ?

Doug Shaver · 08-16-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evad

The Bible is often mistaken as having stated in some way that there was a solid dome structure above the surface of the earth.

Does any expert in ancient Hebrew, aside from inerrantists, think it's a mistake?

stephan huller · 08-16-2011, 03:54 PM

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Does any expert in ancient Hebrew, aside from inerrantists, think it's a mistake?

No of course not. It's like arguing that ice cream isn't cold.

spin · 08-16-2011, 04:14 PM

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Originally Posted by stephan huller

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Does any expert in ancient Hebrew, aside from inerrantists, think it's a mistake?

No of course not. It's like arguing that ice cream isn't cold.

Oh, you are such a welativist. In certain parts of Wussia in winter people eat ice-cweam to keep warm!

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