Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Apocolips · 09-09-2004, 09:52 AM

Hola!

At what age or time must a person have a real belief in God (or to be "born again")? Age 3? 4? 5? Older, younger? Three year old children know the difference between right and wrong in some situations, a 4 year old has a greater understanding, and maybe a 5 year old knows that it is wrong to steal or tell a lie.

Then there is the 6 year old boy in Flint, Michigan who killed his classmate. Is he responsible spiritually for his actions. If this child was killed right after this incident (due to police intervention) where would this kid go?

I went to Sunday School as a child with a teenager/20 something woman who was retarded, and maybe had the IQ of 40-50. I asked as a child of 12 about her salvation, and I was told that she could not make a decision for herself, and in not so many words stated that when (even as an old person) she would die, Jesus would accept her. What i understood from his mumbo-jumbo to a child (me) was that she did not have free will (because of lack of deep thinking) so she is innocent and worthy of the Kingdom of God.

Which tells me that dying as a baby, or being retarded is a free ticket to paradise. OR retarded people will really God's gift to man. SO, a retarded child is born to a couple, but they are supposed to be blessed with an innocent being, even if that innocent being will be a strain of time and resources to their parents all their lives. Then the parents need to believe in God who gave them this misery or die a painful death in the afterworld for not believing. the retarded child gets his/her ticket punched to paradise just for beibg them, while their parents may curse God and miss salvation.

Which brings us to this, what is the minimum IQ to accept God and all its ramifications? How old must you be to be saved? Show me a Bible verse stating that a baby or a retarded (mentally handicapped person) goes to heaven and the justification of those people blessed here on Earth with a mind and reason.

(Please no athiests or distractors. Thank You.)

Senor

jdlongmire · 09-09-2004, 10:22 AM

from birth...conception really...

Quote:

I. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit.[1] This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.[2]

II. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion, with God,[3] and so became dead in sin,[4] and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.[5]

III. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed;[6] and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.[7]

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wc...fs/indexf.html

...but...

Quote:

III. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit,[12] who works when, and where, and how He pleases:[13] so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.[14]

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wc...oofs/ch_X.html

...so, anyone capable of being outwardly called...can I quantify? nope. No min, no max.

09-09-2004, 09:52 AM	#1
Apocolips Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hangzhou, China Posts: 2,402	(Xian) When are we responsible for our sins? Hola! At what age or time must a person have a real belief in God (or to be "born again")? Age 3? 4? 5? Older, younger? Three year old children know the difference between right and wrong in some situations, a 4 year old has a greater understanding, and maybe a 5 year old knows that it is wrong to steal or tell a lie. Then there is the 6 year old boy in Flint, Michigan who killed his classmate. Is he responsible spiritually for his actions. If this child was killed right after this incident (due to police intervention) where would this kid go? I went to Sunday School as a child with a teenager/20 something woman who was retarded, and maybe had the IQ of 40-50. I asked as a child of 12 about her salvation, and I was told that she could not make a decision for herself, and in not so many words stated that when (even as an old person) she would die, Jesus would accept her. What i understood from his mumbo-jumbo to a child (me) was that she did not have free will (because of lack of deep thinking) so she is innocent and worthy of the Kingdom of God. Which tells me that dying as a baby, or being retarded is a free ticket to paradise. OR retarded people will really God's gift to man. SO, a retarded child is born to a couple, but they are supposed to be blessed with an innocent being, even if that innocent being will be a strain of time and resources to their parents all their lives. Then the parents need to believe in God who gave them this misery or die a painful death in the afterworld for not believing. the retarded child gets his/her ticket punched to paradise just for beibg them, while their parents may curse God and miss salvation. Which brings us to this, what is the minimum IQ to accept God and all its ramifications? How old must you be to be saved? Show me a Bible verse stating that a baby or a retarded (mentally handicapped person) goes to heaven and the justification of those people blessed here on Earth with a mind and reason. (Please no athiests or distractors. Thank You.) Senor

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.