mountainman

Thanks Shesh - I was not aware of this name.

Nehushtan

The image is from this blog: http://pillarofenoch.blogspot.com.au...of-god-by.html

Robert Tulip

Whats with the anti-Semitism accusation? I am not anti-Semitic. Nor did I say acceptance of Jewish claims is a conspiracy. You are getting desperate.

Outside of the sheltered environment of the internet, almost no media are willing to host a debate on the existence of Jesus. It may be that such discussion is seen as vilifying Christianity. The church is a massive social institution that media are cautious of offending, except with easy targets such as pedophilia. To criticise Christian or Jewish faith and culture leads to those making the criticisms being vilified. People are naturally reluctant to enter a debate where their views will be distorted by others with base agendas. So most people have never even heard that the question is disputed.

How does this relate to the discussion here? Huller tosses up a wild and false insinuation of anti-Semitism just because I question his pet myth of the Therapeuts as exclusively Jewish. That does not bother me, because I am not anti-Semitic. Evidence-free vilification reflects more on the vilifier than the vilified. The religious syndrome is apparent: Christians react badly when people challenge their pet myth about Jesus, throwing insults at those who explore the evidence. Similarly, looking at the evidence about the Therapeuts seems to expose some raw emotional nerves.

Obviously the Therapeuts had extensive Jewish links, but Huller is insisting they were exclusively Jewish, despite Philo's statements that they lived in every district of Egypt and included the best people from all over.

My point in bringing Bernal's racial analysis from Black Athena into the picture is that within the tradition of classics there has been an intense and irrational denial of non-European influence on western civilization. While this racist tradition is not explicit as it was a century ago, it retains a strong implicit influence. Racism has changed its content, and the dominant strand of white racism today is philosemitic.

The question I am most interested in here is how Ashoka's Theraputta missionaries from India to Egypt may have influenced Christian origins through the movement named after them, the Therapeuts. The Theraputta brought the Buddhist monastic and ethical traditions to the west in the wake of Alexander's opening of travel routes. The insistence that there was no such Buddhist influence is a corollary of Huller's groundless argument that Philo's Therapeuts were exclusively Jewish. Such exclusivism is a stumbling block for efforts to understand Christian origins.

stephan huller

Yeah, Robert, I can just feel how much you love the Jews. Pete, the other neo-pagan here. Consider the resemblance of the traditional Jewish depiction of Haman:



Michelangelo also depicted Haman crucified not hanged:





Same word in Aramaic.

Sheshbazzar

What was originally fashioned to 'Deliver' those that looked up to it became an object of idlotry, and an accursed thing that was destroyed.

Guess what?

mountainman

The witness is the Jewish Encyclopedia and you have totally misread it.

The claim is that the author of "VC is virulently anti-pagan but that Philo is not.

Philo is allied to Greek culture and philosophy, the author of "VC" is not.

Philo praises Pythagoras, Plato, etc while the author of "VC" repudiates them.

Philo has great respect for the symposium, while the author of "VC" presents a detestable, common drinking-bout.

Philo respects the Platonic Eros, the author of "VC" does not.


Original source:

The Jewish Encyclopedia: A Descriptive Record of the History, Religion, Literature, and Customs of the Jewish People from the Earliest Times to the Present Day, Volume 10 (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Isidore Singer and Cyrus Adler.

This pattern of great dissimilarities between the fundamental conceptions of the author of the "De Vita Contemplativa" and those of Philo suggest that "De Vita Contemplativa" was not authored by Philo. It is obvious that these may be some of the subsidiary reasons that the scholars and professors at the end of the 19th century supported the hypothesis that "De Vita Contemplativa" was a 4th century forgery.

This hypothesis of forgery having been knocked on the head by Conybeare's hypothesis
that the therapeutae are a Jewish sect has been stunned for over a century.

IMO this hypothesis that ""De Vita Contemplativa" was forged is till quite viable and suitable for censorship discussion.

stephan huller

crazy. i hope your pagan gods reward you for all this wasted effort

mountainman

Why?

Sheshbazzar

The only wasted effort I'm seeing here is in trying to get stephan to reveal where he finds any text of Philo that states the Theraputae cult of Alexandria observed a 364 day calendar.

[And even if he did, I would expect him to be able to provide corroborating statements made by these Therapeutae.

A good old rule; 'at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.']

stephan huller

Oh my God. It's too much. It's like I am teaching a child how to fly an airplane. You realize that the 'experts' that you all ignore so much and so often have taken and examine bits and pieces of things related to the Contemplative Life and studied and commented upon them in relation to bits and pieces of other 'things' - like Qumran texts, Falasha traditions and documents, Syriac traditions and documents, Slavonic traditions and documents etc?

There is a reason why we are supposed to at least acknowledge the opinion of experts. Our culture has traditionally devoted some of its resources to allow people who have been trained how to think, how to read, how to appreciate tradition and texts from antiquity and communicate and collaborate with other experts in different universities, cultures and across time. Research doesn't happen in a void. Lots of intelligent people have been building and commenting and re-purposing previous and contemporary scholars.

You guys haven't even read what work has been done on the Therapeutae, putting them in a Jewish cultural context. You don't want to read the evidence because it might topple over the existing preconceptions. Read the literature. Google the terms "364 day calendar" and "Therapeutae" and see for yourself - or as I suspect continue to ignore it.

aa5874

You appear to have no idea that EXPERTS can disagree with each other using the very same Data.

The resolution of any matter is based on actual Data, actual evidence NOT expert opinion.

If experts alone were used in a court trial NO verdict will ever be reached. We can always find Experts that use the very same data, the very same evidence and come to the opposite conclusion.

We have the Text--We have "On the Contemplative Life" and it does NOT state anywhere that the Therapeutae were Jewish or of Jewish origin.

It was the ESSENES that were identified by Philo as Jews or of Jewish origin.

When I review a matter, I do NOT review opinion.

I examine the ACTUAL DATA--the actual Text.

On the Contemplative Life does NOT claim the Therapeutae were Jews.

There is NO history of the Therapeutae as Jews in any Jewish writing of antiquity.

Writers for the Church claimed that Philo's Therapeutae were Christians of the Jesus cult.