Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 03-01-2004, 06:29 PM

Europe Grows Hostage to Its Muslims
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/160934.shtml

Quote:

In Manchester, England, a radical Muslim who does not even speak English has been elected to the city council, where he needs an interpreter.
Consider: According to the German media, secret Shari'a courts appear to be meting out "justice" in Italy. In that country's north a man known to Muslims as a sex fiend recently showed up with a hand missing. It had obviously been amputated as punishment. Italian doctors report treating Muslim women who had evidently been lashed.
Consider: In France about 70,000 young women, chiefly Muslim, are being subjected to forced marriages every year, according to the country's High Council for Integration. Every year, too, 35,000 girls are either circumcised or under threat of circumcision, HCI related.
These vignettes highlight a dilemma troubling Islam experts on both sides of the Atlantic: Are European governments still masters in their own house? And to what extent will the growth of their Islamic communities have serious repercussions on foreign and domestic affairs?
? This is not an exclusively European phenomenon. In preparing for the war on Iraq, Bush administration officials inexplicably sidelined Mohammed Mohammed Ali, a remarkable Shiite scholar and leader in the Iraqi National Congress, who advocated a secular nation providing a safe haven for his brand of Islam and all other faiths of his country

The article is too religiously biased to be truly trustworthy. But I would like to know if the alarming picture he paints is more or less true?

Denmark seems to think so anyway: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...006054,00.html

Quote:

Denmark has introduced new immigration laws that will make it more difficult for Muslim clerics and other religious leaders to enter the country.
The new rules are designed in part to deter Islamic clerics from establishing Islamic communities in Denmark and instead encourage Muslims to integrate into the broader society. The rules however, would apply to any religious group.
?The DPP, which first proposed the new rules, confirmed they were aimed to curb the activities of Muslim clerics, or imams.
Peter Skaarup, a spokesman for the DPP, said: "In theory, these rules concern all clerics from all religions. But in practice, they target the imams."

I am also hearing about Muslims refusing to be integrated in UK, Australia, France, Italy.

demoninho · 03-02-2004, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
I am also hearing about Muslims refusing to be integrated in UK, Australia, France, Italy.

You can also add Holland to that list

and probably also Belgium and Germany....

Quote:

The article is too religiously biased to be truly trustworthy. But I would like to know if the alarming picture he paints is more or less true?

I hadn't heard about amputations before but I did hear about the banlieu's in France where sharia was effectively in effect. I read this in reliable newspapers which said women where being burned alive and gang banged because they were to western (IIRC one woman survived and she's crusading against islam in France).

From Holland I can tell you that at least 5 girls were killed by their family members last year for being to western that I can remember. Also many schools are afraid to teach about the holocaust because of intimidation by muslim students and in Amsterdam it is getting harder and harder for jews to walk the streets savely without being harrassed by muslims. And all this is just the tip of the iceberg.....

I guess it one of these atheists moral dilemmas combined with social-democratic values. Since the mostly secular european countries realize there is no god and no absolute moral value system we've been very hesitant to condemn other cultures for their practices leading to some sort of moral and cultural relativism, this combined with the firm social-democrat believe that all social problems stem from economic inequality has led to a laissez-faire politics regarding immigration and integration and a hope the integreation and adoption of western values would follow on an improvement oftheir social-economic status. Unfortunately the opposite proved to be true with the muslims getting more and more orthodox eventhough their economic situations are improving evermore

All is not well in Europe

BTW Hinduwoman where do you live, still in India?

Yahzi · 03-02-2004, 11:14 AM

Don't look for sympathy here.

I'd love to have that problem. A bunch of crazy religious zealots trying to redefine your culture and your laws? Here in America, we have pretty much the same problem... except they aren't foriegners.

Layman · 03-02-2004, 12:16 PM

I was recently in London on business, and saw a Muslim woman in traditional garb dutifully following her husband who was ten feet ahead of her. While I had seen such situations on television and when I visited Malaysia, my emotional response (revulsion) was many times stronger than it had been previously. Something about seeing such behavior persisting in such a diverse Western city really set me off.

Secular Europe is headed for some sort of confrontation with their increasingly Muslim populations.

demoninho · 03-02-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahzi
Don't look for sympathy here.

I'd love to have that problem. A bunch of crazy religious zealots trying to redefine your culture and your laws? Here in America, we have pretty much the same problem... except they aren't foriegners.

At least secularist and christians in the US actually share most of their basic legal and social values. It may seem like a big deal but the differences are actually little things, abortion, euthenasia and gay marriage. The quran doesn't even acknowledge atheists the right to live!

And unfortunately most of the muslims living in Europe where born there and so were their parents, so they have an european citizenship: legally they are not foreigners! And the worrying thing is if current demographic trends continue for the next 20-30 years they will be in the majority a majority of people who don't acknowledge any of my rights....

koros · 03-03-2004, 11:50 AM

Its not only Europe.
Most of the muslims are asians nowdays. And soon it is going to be the americas.

They say america is imperialist. The only true imperialism today is the muslim's.

I think the american atheist should switch their criticism to islam.
I don't mean christianity is better, but wake up please. There is a real religious danger today. This threat comes from a religion that behave itself as christianity did during the time of inquisition. This religion is spreading HATE of americas, western world and jews. This religion is islam.

Yet american atheist seems only interested in battling with christianity.

Koros

HaysooChreesto! · 03-03-2004, 03:22 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by koros
Yet american atheist seems only interested in battling with christianity.

Christianity is the overwhelmingly dominant religion here. What you're asking is kind of like running down the street to put out your neighbors fire while your own house is burning to the ground.

What I'm wondering is how this is all going down with the multiculturalist crowd. Poor immigrants and minorities are bringing intolerence and violence to powerful white Europeans... Quite the philosophical conundrum.
On one hand you have the "no culture is better than any other culture" idea but on the other there is obvious economic and physical damage being caused to another culture by the other. Interesting.

When Americans bitch about this it's called racism.

koros · 03-03-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

What you're asking is kind of like running down the street to put out your neighbors fire while your own house is burning to the ground.

The only religious fire I see in America is the fire from the twin towers. And as far as I know, al qaeda pilots were not christians.....

I think, from all the country in the world, America should be well aware about the PRIME dangers of radical islam.
You perfectly illustrate what I was saying.

Koros

Heurismus · 03-03-2004, 04:44 PM

AGITPROP? NF sleaze, or just plain narrowmindedness? Better still, controversial to sell papers?

Tenpudo · 03-04-2004, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by koros
The only religious fire I see in America is the fire from the twin towers. And as far as I know, al qaeda pilots were not christians.....

That's strange. You must not have heard about these guys.

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03-02-2004, 11:14 AM	#3
Yahzi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Worshipping at Greyline's feet Posts: 7,438	Don't look for sympathy here. I'd love to have that problem. A bunch of crazy religious zealots trying to redefine your culture and your laws? Here in America, we have pretty much the same problem... except they aren't foriegners.

03-02-2004, 12:16 PM	#4
Layman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,635	I was recently in London on business, and saw a Muslim woman in traditional garb dutifully following her husband who was ten feet ahead of her. While I had seen such situations on television and when I visited Malaysia, my emotional response (revulsion) was many times stronger than it had been previously. Something about seeing such behavior persisting in such a diverse Western city really set me off. Secular Europe is headed for some sort of confrontation with their increasingly Muslim populations.

03-03-2004, 11:50 AM	#6
koros Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 67	Its not only Europe. Most of the muslims are asians nowdays. And soon it is going to be the americas. They say america is imperialist. The only true imperialism today is the muslim's. I think the american atheist should switch their criticism to islam. I don't mean christianity is better, but wake up please. There is a real religious danger today. This threat comes from a religion that behave itself as christianity did during the time of inquisition. This religion is spreading HATE of americas, western world and jews. This religion is islam. Yet american atheist seems only interested in battling with christianity. Koros

03-03-2004, 03:22 PM	#7
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	[QUOTE]Originally posted by koros Yet american atheist seems only interested in battling with christianity. Christianity is the overwhelmingly dominant religion here. What you're asking is kind of like running down the street to put out your neighbors fire while your own house is burning to the ground. What I'm wondering is how this is all going down with the multiculturalist crowd. Poor immigrants and minorities are bringing intolerence and violence to powerful white Europeans... Quite the philosophical conundrum. On one hand you have the "no culture is better than any other culture" idea but on the other there is obvious economic and physical damage being caused to another culture by the other. Interesting. When Americans bitch about this it's called racism.

03-03-2004, 04:44 PM	#9
Heurismus Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West London Posts: 2,337	AGITPROP? NF sleaze, or just plain narrowmindedness? Better still, controversial to sell papers?

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