sotto voce

'So now, the disciples can see clearly. Assisted by a visual parable.'

Remember? You just haven't got Mark's point, have you.

A pity you didn't tell me before I had to tell you.

On the contrary, it was faith that made them fear.

And it's contagious.

Chili

Conception and Ascension are simple physical events that are native to man, and so is Assumption that follows, but has nothing to do with sex as we know it.

Thre Immaculate Conception simply is the rebirth of our very own nucleus that first conceived life in the sperm and so contains our very own flesh and blood and therefore is our dowry in betrothal as well, ie She is our very own DNA and is RNA by relation through our heritage to the innermost depth of our soul. She so then is Nazareth as that little city of God, and hence the Annunciationis is an intuit force by which we as outsider are convicted by her . . . which then is called the good character of Joseph always true to her.

Notice here that on Matthew it was a dream instead of an intuit urge (no yin/yang medicine here), which then is why Jn.1:13. makes a distinction between the 'formal cause' of this event.

But yes, it is a word story with personifications so that humans can relate to it as outsider, as Joseph was, too, and it happened to him. Ascension then is when Jesus finally went 'poof' (if you like) as he only was the new persona of Joseph the man after his Mary led him by the nose to show him what he really was made of. An infancy yes, but no baby for sure. Just metamorphosis here.

The curtain they talk about is between the left and right brain that is painted green on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, in case you wonder, and that which at one time was the great divide now was like a wall to many but not to Jesus himself, and so the 'upper room' was just in the mind of Joseph where also this cave was that they burried Jesus in for a while, as that was also where these captives were, I should add. To note here is that if you are arkbuilder you must also be a cave hewer, and we now have a Baptism candle to keep so it may be ours someday as well.

Anyway, Assumption then is when the second honeymoon begins and there he will become Man with a capital M.

yalla

“I see men, for I see them like trees, walking around"

This, quoted by someone above from "Mark", is itself a near quote from an inscription at the Asklepian temple at Epidauras by a grateful soldier, Alcetas of Hilice, who was cured by Asklepios of his blindness and after being cured saw trees walking like men
In conjunction with the nearby healing story in "Mark" about curing with touching and spittle, which is a common healing motif of the era, the author of "Mark" is telling his readers that anything the pagan gods can do his god can do at least as well.
It's sorta like "John's" story about turning water into wine which was a famous miracle enacted at a Dionysian temple.
Its all just stories from the rival religions.

Net2004

http://www.michaelturton.com/Mark/GMark08.html

17: And being aware of it, Jesus said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18: Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? And do you not remember?


v17-18: Beavis (1989, p111-115) discusses the similarities between this and the equally enigmatic verses of Mark 4:11-12, including the allusion here to the same passage, Isa 6:10.

v17-18: Myers (1988, p225), argues that the sequence of heart, eyes, and ears points to Deuteronomy 29:2-4:


2 Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them: Your eyes have seen all that the LORD did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials and to all his land. 3 With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous signs and great wonders. 4 But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.



hello yalla

do you think that luke omitted this story because it did not portray the deciples in a good light?

Net2004

if luke coverted the fig tree incident in mark into a parable or he derived a parable from an incident in mark, he could have done the same with the story about the deciples weak faith .

Net2004

Matthew 8:26
"You of little faith, why are you so afraid?"

the women did not remember that there was going to be a ressurection and took spices with them to annoint a dead body . they said nothing to anyone because they were afraid . it was little faith that made them fear and nothing joyful to report about whattheyhadseen

"Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18: Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? And do you not remember "


thedecipleswhofailedjesus

sotto voce

So if Alcetas could tell a man from a tree only when he walked, he wasn't really cured, was he. Still, better than nothing. Jesus trumps Asklepios, Mark says.

Or does he. He expects us to believe that a blind man in Galilee knew about this obscure inscription in Greece. And that his readers understand this. Nah.

Even a child understands that blurred vision, anywhere in the world where trees grow, could well give an impression of people looking like trees. I'm perfectly sure that most who read this as children fully comprehended that much. Maybe not Inuit children.

Or perhaps it's Jesus demonstrating that he can do as well as pagan deities are claimed to do.

It's really not a good idea to allege that an author is a liar. If one author can lie, so can another.

Chili

Nice, but in your example the grateful soldier saw the essence of life even in trees, and not just 'God in nature' but the very essence of God in a tree.

Opposite this is Mark where it comes across as a flop, still with snot in his nose, soup in his eyes and shit in his ears and needed a second layer of spit to clean him up so he could see.

Yes, John is nice with the water and wine allegory where the second half of life (Yin period) is where the water is transformed into wine . . .and so is why Cana is not found in Mark and Matthew and is why back to Galilee they go only with the taste of bitter wine handed to them.

Edit to add: To see "trees walking like men" is equal to say "Amen" to 'this is my body and this is my blood,' now as equals in the 'evolutionary' second half of life as opposed to the 'involutionary' Yang period left behind.

andrewcriddle

The parallel is not as close as that See oracles
Andrew Criddle

yalla

Yep, if you focus on the differences then they are different but if you focus on the similarities then they are similar.

Denis Nineham author of "St.Mark" a Pelican NT Commentary says this about the trees of 8.24:
"A fairly close Hellenistic parallel can be cited from the temple of Asclepios [then refers to Alcetas etc]...." [page 219 my italics].
So he thinks its 'fairly close.

But what if we add the close proximity in "Mark" of the deaf-mute at 7.33?

Nineham again [who, incidentally makes comment here of Vespasian healing with spittle]:
"...most scholars see them [the 2 stories] as 'developed in the syncretistic atmosphere of the Hellenistic world".

These 2 healing stories are part of a common motif of the era, a theme of miraculous healings done by holy men, using standard techniques of the day and utilising common language.