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Old 12-21-2005, 12:03 AM   #1
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Default Asperger vs. Williams: Rival Intelligences

Some psychologists have come to conclude that we do not have one unified intelligence but several intelligences, and that they may be present in different proportions -- sometimes very different proportions. One interesting proposal concerns autism, and variants like high-functioning autism and Asperger's syndrome, which combine intellectual development with social difficulties. As explained in Girls, Boys, and Autism, psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen has proposed that there are at least two kinds of intelligences: Systematizing Intelligence (SI) and Empathizing Intelligence (EI). SI is the capability of constructing systems and is most useful for dealing with inanimate objects. EI is the capability of interpreting emotions from cues and is most useful for dealing with people.

The two sexes have both abilities, though boys/men tend to have more SI and girls/women more EI.

But those who have autism / Asperger's syndrome tend to have much-enhanced SI and much-reduced EI, something called the "extreme male brain" theory. However, women with Asperger's syndrome may still have "feminine" instead of "masculine" personalities and interests, like art and dancing.

On the other extreme is Williams's syndrome; those with it are often "hypersocial, highly verbal and often deeply empathetic", as if they have much-enhanced EI and much-reduced SI. The article Different Minds goes into more detail about this, and even points out that legendary creatures like elves and pixies may be inspired by those with Williams syndrome. Those with that condition are often hyperfriendly; it can be hard to get them to be properly suspicious of strangers. They also often have unusually large vocabularies, though their understanding is not necessarily very good. And they are often poor at arithmetic and spatial reasoning.

There is even some evidence of differences in brain structure. According to the article Mirror Cells' Fading Spark: Empathy-related neurons may turn off in autism (12/10/2005; registered subscribers only), "Brain cells implicated in the ability to imitate and empathize with others largely fail to function in children with autism, a new brain-imaging investigation suggests."

To learn more, check out this collection of papers contains papers on tests for degree of autism, emphthy, systematizing, concern with friendships, and so forth, comparing those with autism / Asperger's syndrome with normal people. Several of them are co-authored by Baron-Cohen himself.

It might be nice to turn those tests into HTML files with automatic scoring, but short of that, one may take this short test at Adults with Asperger's Syndrome:

* I find social situations confusing.
* I find it hard to make small talk.
* I did not enjoy imaginative story-writing at school.
* I am good at picking up details and facts.
* I find it hard to work out what other people are thinking and feeling.
* I can focus on certain things for very long periods.
* People often say I was rude even when this was not intended.
* I have unusually strong, narrow interests.
* I do certain things in an inflexible, repetitive way.
* I have always had difficulty making friends.
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Old 12-21-2005, 12:56 AM   #2
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I found the description of William's Syndrome very intriguing. Although their profile seems to be the reverse of those with Autism spectrum disorders, the language development and the fascination with spinning objects are very similar to those of people with High Functional Autism or Asperger's Syndrome.
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:01 AM   #3
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Sounds like people with Asperger's Syndrome have the exact same problems as introverted folks.
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Fornal
Sounds like people with Asperger's Syndrome have the exact same problems as introverted folks.
Quite plausibly, these may be just different verbal formulations for the same phenomenon.
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:00 PM   #5
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From ASPEN, more Asperger symptoms:

* Marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as: eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction.
* Extreme difficulty in developing age-appropriate peer relationships. (e.g. AS children may be more comfortable with adults than with other children).
* Inflexible adherence to routines and perseveration.
* Fascination with maps, globes, and routes.
* Superior rote memory.
* Preoccupation with a particular subject to the exclusion of all others. amasses many related facts.
* Difficulty judging personal space, motor clumsiness.
* Sensitivity to the environment, loud noises, clothing and food textures, and odors.
* Speech and language skills impaired in the area of semantics, pragmatics, and prosody (volume, intonation, inflection, and rhythm).
* Difficulty understanding others’ feelings.
* Pedantic, formal style of speaking; often called “ little professor�?, verbose.
* Extreme difficulty reading and/or interpreting social cues.
* Socially and emotionally inappropriate responses.
* Literal interpretation of language. difficulty comprehending implied meanings.
* Extensive vocabulary. Reading commences at an early age (hyperlexia).
* Stereotyped or repetitive motor mannerisms.
* Difficulty with “give and take�? of conversation.

Looking more broadly, the opposite of autism/Asperger "extreme male brain" would be "extreme female brain", and Williams' syndrome appears to be an example of that. However, Williams' syndrome involves several additional features, due to deletion of a certain piece of chromosome 7, so it would be interesting to find cases of "extreme female brain" (high EQ and FQ, low AQ and SQ) without the rest of Williams' syndrome.

However, Simon Baron-Cohen himself has speculated that such cases may be difficult to find, because they can live approximately normal lives while using their social skills to get the use of others' systematizing skills.

By comparison, it's much harder if one's social skills are impaired, unless one can find a social niche where one does not need very great social skills. Especially a niche where one can do a lot of systematizing.
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpetrich
From ASPEN, more Asperger symptoms:

* Marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as: eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction.
* Extreme difficulty in developing age-appropriate peer relationships. (e.g. AS children may be more comfortable with adults than with other children).
* Inflexible adherence to routines and perseveration.
* Fascination with maps, globes, and routes.
* Superior rote memory.
* Preoccupation with a particular subject to the exclusion of all others. amasses many related facts.
* Difficulty judging personal space, motor clumsiness.
* Sensitivity to the environment, loud noises, clothing and food textures, and odors.
* Speech and language skills impaired in the area of semantics, pragmatics, and prosody (volume, intonation, inflection, and rhythm).
* Difficulty understanding others’ feelings.
* Pedantic, formal style of speaking; often called “ little professor�?, verbose.
* Extreme difficulty reading and/or interpreting social cues.
* Socially and emotionally inappropriate responses.
* Literal interpretation of language. difficulty comprehending implied meanings.
* Extensive vocabulary. Reading commences at an early age (hyperlexia).
* Stereotyped or repetitive motor mannerisms.
* Difficulty with “give and take�? of conversation.

Looking more broadly, the opposite of autism/Asperger "extreme male brain" would be "extreme female brain", and Williams' syndrome appears to be an example of that. However, Williams' syndrome involves several additional features, due to deletion of a certain piece of chromosome 7, so it would be interesting to find cases of "extreme female brain" (high EQ and FQ, low AQ and SQ) without the rest of Williams' syndrome.

However, Simon Baron-Cohen himself has speculated that such cases may be difficult to find, because they can live approximately normal lives while using their social skills to get the use of others' systematizing skills.

By comparison, it's much harder if one's social skills are impaired, unless one can find a social niche where one does not need very great social skills. Especially a niche where one can do a lot of systematizing.
Stereotypes have their place. But the list you provide is a bunch of stereotypes.

I've spent a long time working with people which Asperger syndrome/autism, to the point that their behaviours could be extremely challanging, as the PC expression has it. I have fairly fresh bite marks on my arm, as I type.

Fortunately I had my first training from someone competent, who told me the most important thing first. Everyone is an individual.

And it didn't take much time to realise that I have Asperger symptoms myself, but I'm reasonably well functioning. And have learnt to function better over the years.

Other Asperger stereotypes are a dedication to truth. Might be about the truth of what particular train runs on what particular line at such and such a time, might be about the truth of exactly how many railings they pass on the way to school/the shops/work whatever..might be figuring out how things would look if one body overtook another at near light speed.

Oh, and some Asperger people learn to read far in front of their fellows. Or be able to multiply things like 77 times 83 in their head faster than can be put into a calculator (I can) or find 8 figure primes by mental arith. I can't.

It ain't rote memory at all. Not sticking things into memory by repetition. Just that interesting things stick.

David B (is beginning to ramble. Baron-Cohen is OK, but doesn't really understand it. But then , what could one expect from a close relative of Ali G)
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:50 PM   #7
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Good article in December 97 Scientific American (if you have digital subscription, you can download it) which compares Williams and Downs. In many ways they seem complementary.
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:23 AM   #8
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I have Aspergers.

* I find social situations confusing. - Not always. However, large groups cause stress.
* I find it hard to make small talk. - Very true.
* I did not enjoy imaginative story-writing at school. – Yes.
* I am good at picking up details and facts. - Somewhat. However, unlike the stereotypical autistic person, I don’t have an affinity for trivia. I prefer to seek understanding, not facts.
* I find it hard to work out what other people are thinking and feeling. – I can usually figure out what people are thinking/feeling. However, that doesn’t necessarily make it easier for me to deal with said people.
* I can focus on certain things for very long periods. – Yes.
* People often say I was rude even when this was not intended. – People don’t say it, but I know from reactions that my unusual quietness/shyness is often mistaken as moodiness or unfriendliness when it is not. I find it difficult to be cheery and outgoing when I am not in a particularly happy mood, but this doesn’t mean that I’m unhappy or that I’m trying to avoid people.
* I have unusually strong, narrow interests. - Yes, but so do most ‘normal’ people I know. It’s just that ‘normal’ peoples’ interests are all the same (at least with males - e.g. professional sports and sex). At least the people with ‘autistic’ traits have more interesting ‘perseverations.’
* I do certain things in an inflexible, repetitive way. - Sometimes, but not to a stereotypical degree.
* I have always had difficulty making friends. – True.
* Marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as: eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction. – Sometimes, most often when under stress. However, extreme stress may result in the use of extreme gestures.
* Extreme difficulty in developing age-appropriate peer relationships. (e.g. AS children may be more comfortable with adults than with other children). – Yes, Especially in high school.
* Inflexible adherence to routines and perseveration. – No.
* Fascination with maps, globes, and routes. – Nope.
* Superior rote memory. – Nope.
* Preoccupation with a particular subject to the exclusion of all others. amasses many related facts. – Not ‘to the exclusion of all others.’ Not positive what ‘amasses many related facts’ means, but probably no. I’m not a trivia person.
* Difficulty judging personal space, motor clumsiness. – I’m not athletic or super coordinated, but I’m not horribly clumsy either.
* Sensitivity to the environment, loud noises, clothing and food textures, and odors. – Yes, but much more when I was younger. I outgrow a lot of this by around the age of 10. I’m still a somewhat picky eater when it comes to certain foods, but I now enjoy a wide variety of foods.
* Speech and language skills impaired in the area of semantics, pragmatics, and prosody (volume, intonation, inflection, and rhythm). – No, I talk normal. I’m not a stereotypical laud monotone talker (if that’s what it’s asking).
* Difficulty understanding others’ feelings. – I don’t think I have as much trouble understanding other peoples feelings as dealing with them.
* Pedantic, formal style of speaking; often called “ little professor�?, verbose. – Not really.
* Extreme difficulty reading and/or interpreting social cues. – I can pick up on most social cues. I actually find people to be quite predictable. I can sometimes guess what a person is going to say from their facial expression and how they inhale before they speak. However, I more often have difficulty responding to social cues. It has more to do with dynamics than interpretation. My brain isn’t programmed to respond immediately the way others seem to.
* Socially and emotionally inappropriate responses. – Sometimes.
* Literal interpretation of language. difficulty comprehending implied meanings. – No.
* Extensive vocabulary. Reading commences at an early age (hyperlexia). – I learned at a normal age without much difficulty. I wouldn’t say I have an extensive vocabulary though. I often forget words I wish to use.
* Stereotyped or repetitive motor mannerisms. - Nope
* Difficulty with “give and take�? of conversation. – Yes.
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Old 12-28-2005, 03:25 AM   #9
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How about addiction to the internet?

I always felt a little autistic (in that I preferred the inside of my head to talking to people). I think it could be something that is purely psychological rather than chemical in nature.
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