Quote:

Originally Posted by patcleaver Quote: Originally Posted by George Hathaway Forgive me butting in, my friends, but it is neither a reliable historic source, nor fiction. Fiction is sometimes written with a moral to the story, but, more often than not it is a confabulation of the conflicts in the human condition. But everyone knows it is just a story. Aesop's Fables, Grimm's Fairy Tales. There is another kind of fiction that contains historically accurate data. It is the historical novel. Set in the real past with fictional characters. The places are real, the words, acts and deeds of the protagonists fiction, with cameo appearances by known characters from the time. The Bible (and Koran) go quite beyond being historical novels, although in many ways they are. They explicitly deny the fictitious nature of the writing and claim all is fact. It was written, not as an historic novel, but as a story with a moral. Its purpose not to entertain or even provide insight but to expose the moral of the story. Learn how to be good and social in a social society: just follow these complex rules to the letter (Pharisees) or take a big picture view and follow the moral principles (Christianity). But in the cases of the Torah, Bible and Koran, the intent is entirely social order through authority at the expense of justice and individual rights. Those who reject the Bible by labeling it "fiction" are being a little shallow. It has served a noble purpose in providing a sense of unity and belonging, being in a group that shares a common morality and common purpose. These are a good thing in small groups. When the authority idea is taken to extreme we get Crusades, Inquisitions, Jihads and Zionism. With groups this large unity thinking can be positively dangerous. What we need is a Bible-like text we can rally round for unity. When that text is a constitution we get patriotic fervor. When that text is religious we get the British Protestant soldiers killing Catholic children without shame. How can we get the unity that Bible-like texts provide without the drawbacks of religion? Hi George nice to hear from you. When goat herders sit around a camp fire and exchange fabulous stories about floods and talking snakes do you really think any of them believe that the stories are true? No they are just good stories. What is your evidence that the gospels were not developed as fiction for an audience that would know they were fiction just like Aesop's Fables, Grimm's Fairy Tales. I think there is lots of evidence that they were originally intended to be fiction and everyone knew they were fiction when they were originally produced and then at some point people started thinking that they were true. Do you have any evidence that the gospels were not developed as fiction or that anyone thought they were non-fiction anytime before the 4th century? Do you have any evidence that the Quran was not developed as fiction or that anyone thought it was non-fiction anytime before the 9th century?

The following document was unearthed in 4007.




At the start of all there Was the Land. Then out of the East there came
our heroes bold. Men and women came they here. To take what was theirs, a
gift of God.



At first we thought the Land was Taken by a native horde. And then God
intervened and brought them small Pox. And by the Will of God but two in
ten lived on. He had prepared an Easy way for us. Amen.



Not all the heathen were beyond redemption. The blessed Pocahontas (small
wonder) became as one of us. Being concubine had brought her to her
Blessed state. She learned her Lesson well.



And it came to pass that we should be peoples apart. Thus thirteen States
with thirteen Stars and thirteen Stripes was born. The Prophetess Betsy
had prepared a Flag, indeed the very token of the Unity to come.



In Philadelphia, so named for manly love of man, housed at that time the
unbroken Liberty Bell unrung. And when first Rung on The Fourth of July it
had completed its ordained duty and by God's will Denied to ring again.



There arose in that day the Wizard Benjamin. Although he never yearned for
formal leadership, there were those who knew the Truth. His Voice
contained in all its incarnations Truth, most dear. His touchstone being
only Truth from anywhere, he dared to tame the lightning in a jar. Known
for his buying short term concubines, sometimes for but one night, he still
in all ways was a moral man. Poor Richard, his nom de plume, back then,
emitted Truth in this Voice, too. Two men or more he was. Wizardry in
Freedom and in Science and in Living life in all its glory now.



At the same time in another State, the one Blessed by the Virgin
Pocahontas, The George was born. And grew to manhood captured by the
burden of no means to tell a lie. Dare we speculate that he was cursed?
If so by Whom we wonder. But The George was Entranced by this affliction
when discovered in a childish prank he could not lie. He could only take
full measure of his Father's wrath. And so he grew to be a man of Whole
integrity. How rare a man He was. He took only his expenses when he
became the leader of an army. Forsooth he made out better than if he had
taken a fair salary, but no matter, he meant it well, we know. He prayed
to God, you see, in all the Winter at the Valley of the Forge. And God in
his Mercy did Bring weather warm enough to melt the ice upon the river.
And so He led his troops to in battle to the Death to Right the wrongful
claim of Kingly rights claimed over We the People.