sugarhitman

"When they therefore were come together, they asked Him (Jesus), saying, LORD WILL YOU AT THIS TIME RESTORE AGAIN THE KINGDOM TO ISRAEL? AND HE SAID UNTO THEM, IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO KNOW THE TIMES OR THE SEASONS, WHICH THE FATHER HAVE PUT IN HIS OWN POWER (I.E. ONLY GOD KNOWS)." Acts 1:6


"But of that day and hour NO MAN KNOWS, NO NOT THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN, BUT MY FATHER ONLY."


The diciples did not know when Jesus would return....and neither does anyone else. Jesus only said that when those signs appear then the time was near (hey that ryhmes ).


Many have in their attempts to predict the arrival of Christ failed due to one reason.....disobeying what Jesus said....for no man knows the day nor hour.


But the Generation which witness the rise of Anti-Christ (as Paul clearly wrote) will be the generation who witness Jesus return. He is the ultimate sign of the end.



And um, men failures concerning Christ return does nothing to hurt the bible. Because the bible is against date setting.

Sheshbazzar

1948 + 120 years = 2068

edited to add.
This has been extensively discussed in previous "prophecy threads".
A refresher for preachers with a short memory.
www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm

sschlichter

hmm, we do not seem to be getting anywhere.

try reading it all together. Mat 16:24-28

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
Matt 16:25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matt 16:26 For what does it benefit a person if he gains the whole world but forfeits his life? Or what can a person give in exchange for his life?
Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Matt 16:28 I tell you the truth, there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

I highlighted the words that answer the where does it say that questions.

The phrase I am referring to is the last phrase that you say is referring to the Olivet Discourse. However(Matt 16:28), it is obviously referring to the transfiguration. The topic is the son of Man coming in his glory. I would agree that the Olivet discourse is part of the same topic and obviously (to Mark, Matthew, Luke, Peter, and myself) the transfiguration is the also part of the same topic. That is why it followed this phrase (referring to Matt 16:28) in all 3 gospels.

~Steve

Decypher

You may think so. I can't see anything like that in the text.

That the Transfiguration comes next is not a proof of anything.

As I said:

"Everything in Matthew 16:27 fits with the Olivet Discourse. Everything in Matthew 16:28 fits with the Olivet Discourse. In the description of the event, in the time prediction of the event, they line up perfectly with the Olivet Discourse material.

Why wouldn't we simply think the verses are talking about the Olivet Discourse event?"


Everything in those verses fits with the Olivet Discourse. You can go through them, and match it all up with the Olivet Discourse. But those verses do not really fit with the descriptions of the Transfiguration. For example, in the descriptions of the Transfiguration, it never mentions the kingdom. And it never says that they "See the son of man coming".

It's a fact that Matthew 16:27-28 has a greater correspondence with the Olivet Discourse material than with anything else.

I will quote from a preterist site which gets it correct:

For reasons of religious dogma, you probably aren't going to be able to accept any of this however.

sugarhitman

More misconceptions I see.


1. Jesus says the generation which the signs appear in will be the generation which see His return. He had already told the diciples "no man, nor angels know the day or hour."
2. When the diciples in Acts 1:6 asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel He replied that it was not for them to know the time for this event.

3. "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death *TILL*they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom." Note the key word till UNTIL. The only people standing there were the diciples. The word until shows that they would die after witnessing this event. When Jesus actually comes no believer is to die but to live with Him for eternity. Contradiction? No. For some of the diciples did indeed see His return BUT IN VISIONS and died afterwards. The keys to understanding this is the word *until* and the fact that no believer dies after Christ's return.


Ive noticed a similier mistake of critics when accusing Jesus of lying when He said that He would not go up to Jerusalem (He told His brothers this) then afterwards went up....it seems they have missed the word *YET.* (MOST OF THE NEW VERSIONS OMIT THIS WORD MAKING JESUS OUT TO BE A LIAR.)



Conclusion: No man not even the diciples knew the actual date of Jesus return as their writings testify. And critics have no understanding of what Jesus meant.

Thanks.

Joan of Bark

Y'know, sugarhitman, if I'm ever in court defending my breaking of a contract, I'd want a Christian like you representing me. By the time you're done, the wording of the contract would be meaningless.


This is the NIV version:

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Visions counts now? Or maybe Jesus meant they will see Him in their minds' eye ... or in their memories, or in some drawing someone made when he was preaching once. See! There are never any contradictions where Jesus is concerned.

Solo

And then Jesus, I swear, from way on high,
cried to them:
"Dyslexics of the world, untie !"

Jiri

sschlichter

Those are themes of the Olivet Discourse, the Transfiguration, and the entire gospel of Matt. As I said, same topic. I think you will find that most of the book of Matthew has these themes at it's core.

Why would the Olivet discourse have to be the pivot point of any references to the Kingdom? Christ does not say, in the Olivet Discourse that it represents everything he has to say about his Kingdom. It is certainly not intended to be the complete thought on the Kingdom of God. It is a facet of the same topic.

When Christ says some of you will see before you die and then takes them up to a hill and reveals his Kingdom to them, it is intentionally chronologically linked so the reader will see the immediate fulfillment in all 3 gospels.

There are hundreds of references to the Kingdom of God in the gospels. These are not to be interpreted thru an Olivet Discourse filter either.

~Steve

sugarhitman

Ahhh the corrupt NIV critics are fond of qouting from these modern corrupt texts.


But anyway the key words are SEE and UNTIL. Those who would SEE His return would die afterwards


"There are some standing here (the diciples were the only ones there) who will not taste death UNTIL they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom."
KJV

That word clearly shows that some of the diciples would see this event and die afterwards....which some of them did and died afterwards.


A vision is a revelation of something that is going to happen given in advance. In other words some of the disciples saw in ADVANCE the coming of Jesus in His kingdom just as He promised....as some of the Disciples testified witnessing this in their writings.



No believer is to die AFTER the coming of Jesus this is CONTRARY to the GOSPEL.


Also I'm beginning to see a pattern with our skeptic friends. Any time you confront thier error suscessfully....it thens becomes a "contradiction" rather then a "failure" oh how they love to worm.

aa5874

I find it extremely amusing that you will claim that the Transfiguration, a completely fictitious event, fulfilled prophecy or the words of the authors of the Gospels.