Psalm 13:5

The Evil One -

This isn't that difficult. Really. You are making it far more difficult than it is. I know that Catholics and Christians have differences, but (and this is coming from someone with a Catholic mom, so I went to a CC, when I was younger) many Catholics don't even read the Bible. My mom doesn't, but she proudly calls herself a Catholic.

As far as differences within mainstream Christianity, I am around Christians all the time (I work at a Christian bookstore), and I don't see these huge differences that you see. There are some differences, but when it comes to salvation, just about every Christian I know understands and believes that one must be born again, and renewed by the Holy Spirit. That isn't an 'out there' view, it is normal Christianity.

Best thing to do is listen to what Jesus said. Start with the New Testament, and not just selected scriptures, but the whole thing... Actually, read the whole Bible... the message is the same, that is one of the amazing things about the Bible, even though it was written by different people, at different times, it tells the same message throughout.

Jack the Bodiless

...And much the same could be said about Hitler.

Did he act in a stereotypical "evil" manner all the time? Did he abuse children? Was he not a patriot who worked hard for the good of the German people?

How do you know he wasn't the Moses of the 20th century, sent by God to smite the apostates who had rejected Jesus for 2000 years?
...Ah, you mean "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". Or was it "turn the other cheek"?

The Bible is riddled with contradictory doctrines on virtually every issue.

French Prometheus

Psalm 13:5,

Argumentum ad verecundiam has very little impact on me and most other people here. When you spew your pick-and-choose interpretation of the Bible, you should expect others to do likewise. I can read the Bible myself and I sure don't need you to explain to me how to read it.

You derailed this thread by quoting extensively from the Bible to prove that Hitler doesn't correspond to your version of Christianity. So what? YOU ARE NOT GOD'S PROPHETESS AND WHETHER PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIANS OR NOT DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOUR OWN DEFINITION.

Hitler believed in God and accepted Jesus as his lord and savior. That makes him a Christian. His behavior was at odds with some of the things written in the Bible. So what? That's what almost every Christian does : pick and choose.
Pick Matt 19:19 and ignore Luke 19:27.
Pick Paul's words in Col 2:16-17 and ignore Jesus' words in Matt 5:17-19.
Pick Lev 18:22 and ignore Lev 19:19.
And the list goes on and on...
Then you make up ad-hoc theology to "explain" your choices and try to pass them off as God's words.

BTW, I don't "twist" the nature of the Christian God because he doesn't exist.
You quote selectively from the Bible and I do likewise. If you don't like people pointing out the bad parts that you so conveniently leave out in your preaching, then you should try Rapture Ready instead of IIDB.


That has already been done many times and, no offense intended, by Christians who had better arguments than those you've given so far.

French Prometheus

Many here (including me) read the whole damn thing. Many of us (not me) are former Bible-believing Christians. Some are even ex-ministers. Just because people disagree with your interpretation doesn't mean that they're stupid, dishonest or mistaken. You need to get off your ego trip and understand that we're all fallible. And that includes you.

French Prometheus

No it's not "normal Christianity". It's only standard American Protestant Christianity in your area. And this version of Christianity is an embarrassment to many standard European Christians (both Catholics and Protestants).

BTW, argumentum ad numeram doesn't work either. You may want to educate yourself about fallacies before starting a new thread that will "expose" our atheistic misconceptions about Chirstianity : Logic & Fallacies.

Last thing, despite the lies propagated by fundamentalist Protestants, Catholics ARE Christians. So even if numbers were an argument, well, since there are far more Catholics in the world than members of your brand of Protestantism (whatever it is), guess what "normal" Christianity would be...

Psalm 13:5

An eye for an eye is about making sure the punishment fits the crime, so people would not (out of anger and vengeance) take the law into their own hands and wrong someone. It was to prevent personal retaliation, and to let the law give someone the correct punishment. I think you've misunderstood that one, and that is what the Pharisees did too, which is why in the NT passage, Jesus started out by saying "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'..."

First, He was correcting the incorrect teaching by the Pharisees that it is our personal duty to retaliate, in regards to the 'eye for an eye' passage, and then He was taking it a step further by saying that we should not retaliate, but forgive, and as children of God, give up our own desire for retaliation and know that God will ultimately be the judge.

So, to sum it up, the first passage is saying that governments should administer only a punishment that fits the crime, and in the second passage, Jesus is saying that in our personal lives, we should not seek revenge and pay back. It seems that both passages are saying we shouldn't seek personal revenge, so I think they go together, not contradict eachother.

Philippe*

Hitler was born a catholic, and allowed "positive christianity" under his crazy rule. He could not declare himself non christian with still more than 80% of german christians, that's simply some basic politics. Hitler, Himmler and the others ss planed to eradicate judeo-christianity to rehabilate an occult indo-european-heathenism. There is nothing christian, just some barbaric way of life.

Philippe

French Prometheus

Bonjour Philippe et bienvenue sur IIBD.

What is the evidence to support this claim of yours that Hitler wanted to eradicate Christianity?
Did you read the whole thread?

Philippe*

Hi,

Thanks

Yes I read the whole stuff, and I have read a lot of things about some years ago trying to understand why the human can be so barbarian, actually the evidences concern rather Himmler and the ss who did the job and were anti-christian, less Hitler. There were occult ceremonies, some heathen cult places like Wewelsburg. There are some recorded discussions of Hitler, Himmler and the ss, I guess that can be find on the net, but I don't want to link them.

Philippe

Psalm 13:5

Your hate and bitterness is coming through very strong...Since the first time you posted to me, I can feel your negative vibes right through my PC.

If that is the way you're going to be, I don't want to argue with you. I prefer to talk to people who can be more laidback and friendly. I'm not perfect, and I did give you an unfriendly response on another thread, which I felt bad about after... so I think I'd rather just not post to you, as long as those negative vibes from you keep coming through.

Besides, you said that you've already argued this with other people, so it sounds like you don't need to argue it with me.