mountainman

The corroboration of Philo's description of the Theraputae may exist -- and be dependent upon the reliance on the association between the Therapeutae so described by Philo and the "therapeutae of Asclepius" who have adundant archaeological citations for the millienial epoch 500 BCE to 500 CE throughout the Roman empire, and substantial documentary citations from the epoch of the 1st to 5th centuries, and who were the subjects of imperial sponsorship and donations (from the first century until the fateful year of 324/325 CE).

AFAIK no such corroboration exists with Philo's description of the Essenes. What is to prevent the "Essenes" from being a Eusebian invention, interpolated into the usual set of extant authors --- Josephus, Philo and Pliny --- in order to provide a Jewish (LXX type) version of the ubiquitous and highly revered (Hellenistic) Therapeutae in the first century?

mountainman

It's interesting that a recent poster to BC&H
contributed to this blog by raising further questions.

maryhelena

Speculation here.......what about the three of them, Philo, Pliny and Josephus, using the term 'Essenes' simply as a projection - a projection into Judea of Therapeutae ideas - while the main center was possibly Alexandria - and that, of course, being a mythicist myself, and looking for symbolism within the gospels... - could mean that the journey to Epypt of the infant Jesus takes on some other significance rather than getting out of Herod's way. "Out of Egypt I have called my son".

Clivedurdle

The archaeological evidence of a vegetarian community is important. They seem to have ascetic utopian ideas as many groups have throughout history - the good of Albi for example.

Why not a Jewish based gnostic group? Judaism had taken on many Greek ideas - it had been part of the greek Empire for three hundred years then,

The Orthodox can be understood as a modern idea going back to invented roots - much like the Victorian gothic revival.

What the group called themselves is a moot point - Cathars did not call themselves Cathars. There may be no connection to the DSS but that does not mean the group did not exist.

And these types of communities do not need leaders! They are in fact anti this type of materialist thinking of the world.

mountainman

There is also the concept of Egypt as a "Little India" in the first century as supported by Philostatus' account of Apollonius' visit there. The practice of asceticism was quite prevalent. Embedded in the gnostic "Acts of Thomas" is a tractate entitled "The Hymn of the Pearl". The subject of this tract is a "spiritual journey down to Egypt" in order - perhaps - to become "enlightened". The tract is considered quite ancient, far older than the Acts of Thomas.

Here are a a number of translations of "The Hymn of the Pearl".
Here is a draft explication as an ascetic allegory

The gathering of the therapeutae, as described by Philo, annually near a lake in Egypt, does not preclude the possibility that some of these people, for the rest of the year, were associated with services in various temples and shrines, in and around Alexandria, or further afield.

andrewcriddle

There is also a reference to the Essenes in Hippolytus Refutation of all Heresies

Andrew Criddle

mountainman

Just another days forgery.

Let's start with the entire package of the canonical new testament corpus of literature.

There was only one thing that Eusebius did not have any control over. That was authorship and distribution and preservation of the writings of "christian heretics" who used the characters of the NT in wild, totally outrageous, unbelievable whopping monstrous Hellenistic romance narratives which were extremely popular to the general public, who loved to hear a good story (and still do). (ie: the NT apocryphal corpus). Yet we know many of these were "edited" by christian preservers in subsequent centuries.


Josephus: Antiquities (15.10.4)

maryhelena

An invention by Eusebius? Would not that be rather a lot of work i.e. the Jesus add on to the Josephus text is small time compared to such an undertaking.....

I think I’ll go, in the blame game, with the unholy trinity of Josephus, Pliny and Philo....

Time wise, these three seem to have some measure of overlap: Philo dies in 50 CE, Pliny born 23/23 CE and dies 79 CE. Josephus born 37 CE and dies some time after 95 CE. Three educated men, intellectuals if you like, who, for whatever reason, saw something of interest in Therapeutic ‘communist’ style living - and thought that the Land of Israel needed to keep up with the rest of the enlightened world, and have its own version of this Utopian ‘heritage’.

It would not be an easy thing to project - what with it contradicting “the first biblical law of “be fruitful and multiply”. Or of, course, not an easy thing to keep hidden if such a community did exist. So, if the Essenes did exist in the Land of Israel, they were pretty much a spiritual construct , a secret, a hidden existence - an idea, an Utopian vision. In other words, the idea might well have been there - 4000 followers.......but never as an actual historical living experience.

I think I agree with Rachel Elior - very smart lady to have the wherewithal to tell it like it is......

I’ve just re-read the Josephus account of the Essenes, in War - and actually, its quite easy to read the account as philosophical rather than historical. The great historian telling us not only what is - but what can be! Methinks what we have here is Josephus wearing his other great hat - the great interpreter of dreams, the prophet of things to come.....
Not possible! So, what does all this do for the historical Jesus camp? Looks like its left with Qumran and its belligerent authors of the DSS - which it might now be in a hurry to distance itself from......To accept that the peaceful Essenes are a spiritual construct, an idea, not a historical reality - why, that way leads straight to a mythological Jesus, a spiritual construct...................Looks like the historical Jesus camp is going to find itself between the devil and the deep blue sea.....................Catch 22

So....three cheers for Josephus! - OK, a cheer for the other two as well.......

maryhelena

Ninety nine dollar question I suppose is would Josephus have had access to the writings of Pliny and Philo? If so......maybe its all on his head, updated, so to speak, the 'history'.......Rachel Elior seems to be saying, if quoted correctly, that Josephus invented the Essenes. Which seems to indicate that she must have some argument regarding why Pliny and Philo made mention of them.

Iznomneak

"Time" published an article on this today:

Scholar Claims Dead Sea Scrolls 'Authors' Never Existed

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes