steve_bnk

OK, we are not all that far apart.

I find Roman crucifixtion, IOW executrion by the state, implausible. The Jesus of the NT was not a threat to Rome. The alternative was a militant anti-rome HJ . Such a person would likely have coorboration some where. There were miltants claiming the mantle of messiah.

outhouse

he was put on the cross for tax evasion and causing a stink in the temple if that even has any historicity at all to it

punishment was not thought about, it was just done and done now! back then.


It had nothing to do with being a threat at all. Poor peasant jews were not a threat, they were to be bilked out of as much money as they could without starvation killing them.

steve_bnk

Where did you get the tax evasion reference from? Rome taxed everyone in the empire was was eaqully ruthless.

outhouse

this falls on it face


this is were mythers fail miserably, no one places even a half decent replacent of why certain scripture were ever written.

Most of the time you can see the roman authors scrambling with what to do over the embarrassments they had to deal with

Diogenes the Cynic

Causing a ruckus at the Temple during Passover, all by itself, would be enough to get somebody crucified. Not because they were a threat to "Rome," but because they were a threat specifically to the Romans in Jerusalem. The Romans were tremendously outnumbered in the city by thousands to one during passover. They were paranoid about riots. Josephus tells us they were paranoid about riots and kept extra guards on the Temple wall during passover. Anyone who looked like they might rile up the crowd or get a riot going was removed and killed without any compunction.

The Gospels also say that the Romans charged Jesus with claiming to be the Messiah - i.e. the 'King of the Jews" which would also be an ipso facto seditious claim to make. This part may or not be true (it's possible. Romans killed would be messiahs all the time, and its possible they affixed some kind of facetious placard to that effect), but stirring up shit at the Temple, all by itself, would be enough to buy a crazy Galilean doomsayer a date with a tree, though.

outhouse

of taxes ?

lets see

tax war probably killed memebers of jesus family in Galilee when he was a child.
jesus is question about taxes a few days before he was kiled
jesus preached to tax collecters to stop ripping the people off
jesus has a tax collector as a follower
jesus tip's over the bank tellers tables calling them thieves
jesus is claimed to be perverting the nation, tax doging and claiming to be king in which he claims isnt of this world.
jesus is put on a cross a day later
a tax war claims the temple, not long after jesus death.

outhouse

now all that made it through the roman version of his life that claims the jews are guilty for his death.


so imagine what didnt make it through the roman version of why jesus was really popular .


instead they deified him with hellenistic attributes

outhouse

except the temple incident is shadowed by OT passages that mirror some of the jeuss story so it leave the temple incident with not as much historicity as we would like.


As well, you could not have tipped over a table as the table would have had its own guard or guards, not to mention the teller would have wrestled him down.


plus he would have never escaped the temple, my only thought is the crowd was so large it gave him a chance to escape normally not afforded

that gave the temple guards a chance to catch him at nightfall and avoid a complete riot in teh day ruining the big payday for the temple and romans controlling it.

steve_bnk

Good points. I always thought given the tale as it is it was iinevtibale he would die young, so to speak.

In one of the gospels Jesus' party appears to be armed when he is taken into custody.

There would certainly have been politicial corruption, influence pedaaling, and collaboration between Roman adminstrors aand Jewish upper crust. Jews with money could have conspired with Romans to eliminate the man.

steve_bnk

Jewish or Roman taxation? The JC of the tale never went agianst Rome. He was in the face of the Jews.

' Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and god what is god's '.

But another good point. Antoher reason why he could have been crucified in the tale. In the gospels he does mostly seem to be on the outskirts and in one case says to keep his locastion secret. A man on the run?

I don't remember JC being given the third degree on taxes by the Romans.