angelo

The ancient myths of Osiris or Dionysus for one.
1.Orsiris-Dionysus is God made flesh, the saviour and 'Son of God'
2.His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin.
3.He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on 25 December before three shepherds
4.He offers his followers the chance to be born through the rites of baptism.
5.He miraculoiusly turns water into wine at a marriege ceremony.
6.He rides into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honour him.
7.He dies at Easter time as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
8.After his death he descends into hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends into heaven in glory.
9.His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.
10.His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and blood.

These are just some of the motifs shared between the tales of Osiris-Dionysus and a 'biography' of Jesus.
[Source-- The Jesus Mysteries.]

andrewcriddle

I'm afraid you have misunderstood what I was saying.

Leaving aside the very dodgy nature of some of these claims, they are mostly irrelevant to the parallels between Jesus and Apollonius.

Eg assume FTSOA that the violent deaths of Osiris and Dionysus-Zagreus are a parallel to the violent death of Jesus. This would still be irelevant to the parallels between Jesus and Apollonius (who did not die a violent death.)

What I was asking is which ancient myths contain parallels to things claimed about both Jesus and Apollonius.

Andrew Criddle

sschlichter

No, in the Koran, you have one claim to hearing one voice in a cave. What eyewitnesses do you have in the Koran that attest to its truth besides Mohammed? What miracles do you have that demonstrate authority over nature, sickness, demons, and death. Eyewitnesses to what? What supernatural event in the Koran has eyewitnesses?

The apostles did not get rich or pwerful. They were killed for what they taught. Mohammed became very rich and very powerful.

Explain to me how the same can be said of the Koran.

sschlichter

(Luke 24:42) So they gave him a piece of broiled fish,

They were feeding him fish. Doesn't this mean that Luke is communicating that Jesus was bodily resurrected?

sschlichter

Have you not heard of the apostles that were persecuted and martyred for following a risen christ?

If not, how about the next generation following the apostles that were also persecuted and martyred for following the same risen christ?

if not, then the 3rd plus generations that were also martyred and killed for following Christ up to the 4th century when nearly half of Rome became Christian (and stopped following Christ, some would argue).

Please give me your alternate explanation for the rise of christianity in those 300 years if you do not beleive the apostles existed. start at whatever year you like and work your way backward.

~Steve

thentian

Oh, they have the Splitting of the Moon miracle, which they allege was not only seen by his companions, but also by the nearby villagers as well as caravans in the area. They also claim that there are numerous # prophecies in the Qur'an that have been confirmed by modern science.

And IIRC, Muhammad flew on a winged horse or somesuch, but I can't be bothered to look it up.

That Muhammad and his followers were militarily successful just goes to show how they had the support of The Almighty! :Cheeky:

aa5874

Well, if they were feeding Jesus fish, after he was supposed to be dead, this would mean the entire story is fiction, Jesus never died. Some-one maybe took him to a physician, like Josephus did in "Life of Josephus", and he recovered under the physician's care.

Just think about it. Jesus would have had to be naked after he resurrected, he left all the burial linen behind.

ChristMyth

Sorry, couldn't help but answer this one.

Actually, when your speaking of the Qu'ran, Mohammed did not get the entire text at one time in a cave. The revelation that he is said to have experienced came throughout his life over a twenty-three year period. His revelations were witnessed at times by his followers and were memorized as they came.

Thentian has answered your question as to Islamic miracles.

Another thing, if we are to reject the Qu'ran because it was a voice only heard by one man, please explain why it is that we should accept the testimony of Paul, who also heard a voice that no one else could hear.

As for the apostles, if you could show me where it is that you find information about how the apostles died, I would greatly appreciate it. As far as I know, we only have tradition written years after the fact about the lives of the followers of Jesus. Any first hand accounts will do, thank you.

We also do not know if the apostles became "rich and powerful" because we know nothing about them. This claim has no basis in fact. If you have texts that show that all the apostles died poor, please provide a link or information where I might be able to research it.

We also do not have "eye-witnesses" to proclaim the truth of the gospels as well. If we are to assume that the Qu'ran is not the Word of God because of lack of "eye-witnesses", then we also automatically assume the same of the NT texts for the same reason. If I'm incorrect, please tell me why.

Christmyth

ChristMyth

This assumes that "Luke" was an eye-witness. IMO, you have to take a step back and look at it from a different angle. "Luke" is not communicating this, the author or Luke is. This author, whomever he might have been, may have believed that Jesus was raised bodily. This would continue with his version of the resurrection. If you discount the idea that Luke was an eye-witness (which he tells you in the beginning of the text that he is not and that he is getting his information second or third hand):

then the fish story becomes just part of the belief system of the author and doesn't mean that it actually took place.

Christmyth

Doug Shaver

So says your evangelical dogma. There is no contemporary evidence supporting it. For most of the apostles, there is no good evidence even for their existence, let alone the circumstances in which they died.