Newfie

Isn’t it interesting, however, that the Church chose to interpret the title as middle or lower class? I wonder how well Jesus’ message would have been accepted if it were thought that he came from a privileged family?

Newfie

Revelation 12 foretells a future event according to Christian tradition, unless I am mistaken, but it is commonly misunderstood to also refer to Satan’s fall from Heaven as referenced by Jesus when he said "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" in Luke 10:18. There’s also been a lot of mythology added to the tradition that Satan is presently ruling Hell.

Solitary Man

Chances are that Jesus was not wealthy. It's not wise to retroject 21st century Western class distinctions on a 1st century situation.

Toto

Geza Vermez IIRC claims that tekton can mean a skilled craftsman, and was used to refer to scholars skilled in arguments.

Dennis MacDonald claims that Odysseus was also a tekton - a skilled craftsman.

But it was part of Christian theology from the earliest record, that Jesus humbled himself. The "lowly carpenter" fits in with this doctrine.

If Jesus had come from a privileged family, as the Buddha did, that would be incorporated into the legend - "rich young prince renounces the false comforts of material wealth and goes on spiritual journey."

graymouser

One interesting source of Christian urban legends is the idea that someone who was around in Jesus's day has lived on uninterrupted ever since. This is usually set up to deal with the obvious problem that the Gospels have Jesus making numerous statements about how "this generation" or the audience he is addressing will not die before the second coming. I've heard variants that it was a Jew who spit on Jesus and is now cursed to wander the earth forever, or perhaps it was the "beloved disciple" (usually imputed to be John). I don't think there is any solid evidence in the texts, but it's out there.

Of course, ancient and medieval stories of saints -- particularly their miracles -- are an entire genre that consists of almost nothing but Christian urban legends, some of which are still held to be true by the Catholic Church to this day. We've got an entire genre, hagiography, loaded with these stories.

fatpie42

Where did you hear this? I've never come across that one.

Yeah, that are some great ones, like St. Brendan holding mass on the back of a whale which they convert to Christianity:
http://scribalterror.blogs.com/scrib...ndan_and_.html

There's also the case of Brigid of Ireland who was actually a pagan goddess who was appropriated as a saint for the purposes of converting people to Christianity.
http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-m...ess-brigid.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_B...h_pagan_Brigid
(The wikipedia entry rather dodgily claims that "most historians" think she was a real person who was exaggerated to encompass aspects of the goddess, but fails to name any historians or give any references.)

graymouser

I heard most of them in college (so 5-9 years ago), hanging out with a mix of friends who were Xian or intrigued by prophecy. There are Wikipedia entries about the Wandering Jew and the Beloved Disciple that reference these beliefs. One interesting character who has been peripherally connected with these is the Count of St. Germain.

Amaleq13

From the article:
"Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, who has written more than 20 intensively-researched historical novels about the Count (casting him as a vampire), included in her short story collection The St. Germain Chronicles (1983) a chapter on the historical man. In it she provides an overview of established details about the Count as well as her own opinion as to his actual identity (the son of a wealthy, probably Jewish, diamond merchant)."

I really like these books.

Minimalist

If memory serves this was actually a fairly common motif in ancient religion. Gods always seemed to be having little palace revolts spring up (Zeus and the Titans, for instance.)

Perhaps this is just one more idea that the christians borrowed?

Newfie

There is actually a series of pulp fiction novels created by Barry Sadler called Casca about the Roman soldier who pierced Jesus’ side being the cursed one who, of course, has a series of “Highlander” like adventures throughout history as a soldier of fortune who cannot be killed. Yet another expression of this myth. See the link here