Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Swifter · 09-18-2003, 03:07 PM

Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone had any sources on this. Basically I got dragged into a debate at RR forums. I'm not the best at debating, but I want to give it a shot. Basically they are claiming that the children were young men that were violent and threatining Elisha's life. To me it definitely doesn't seem like that. Anyone have any info from scholars who have translated this? Or anything helpful?

they gave me this link

that claims that young men encompass anyone from 12 to 30. As well as other things.

and this link too.

Any help would be appreciated =)

Doctor X · 09-18-2003, 03:21 PM

Welcome to the forums!

Check with the mods here--who can probably explain searching for topics better than I can--however, there was a discussion on Biblical inerrancy in which this matter arose. Some tried the same tactic you explain.

Basically, it was demolished.

--J.D.

judge · 09-18-2003, 03:25 PM

If the same word is used in the 1 Kings to describe men in the army then I don't see any reason to think they were not also this age.

Mageth · 09-18-2003, 03:41 PM

In the long run, what difference does their age make? It may seem worse if they were merely children, but I'd argue that having a bunch of people mauled or killed by bears merely for their taunting of Elisha is quite an overreaction, whatever their age. Why not just strike them dumb for a couple of hours, paralyze them for a bit, have their hair fall out, or some other less violent reaction?

Toto · 09-18-2003, 03:42 PM

Searching for "elisha bears" in BC&H gives 10 threads. The latest and longest one was this:

"Plenty of atrocities and brutality in the OT"

and it has a long discussion on the details of Elisha and the two bears.

Heathen Dawn · 09-18-2003, 03:54 PM

Hey Swifter,

They actually let infidels post on RaptureReady? That’s a new one on me.

Doctor X · 09-18-2003, 04:02 PM

Swifter:

Toto found it! Happy reading. . . .

--J.D.

Swifter · 09-18-2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

They actually let infidels post on RaptureReady? That�s a new one on me.

Ya, lol, but I havn't really tried to debate them. I was only there because thats where an ex friend of mine posts. So I was writing to him about stuff and people mentioned "A Case for Faith". I have read it and I told them that I didn't think it was good. They asked me what my problems were with it. So I posted just a few on the apologetics board. One of them was the Elisha and the bears. So now I am in a debate about it =/

thanks Toto and everyone for the help =). I really am not feeling like debating this. Looks like their gonna interperate the text in their way and ask me why I don't agree.

Calzaer · 09-18-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

hat claims that young men encompass anyone from 12 to 30.

Um, excuse me... but all three of my Bibles specifically use the words "little children".

Sauron · 09-18-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calzaer
Um, excuse me... but all three of my Bibles specifically use the words "little children".

Correct. It isn't interpreted as "adult gang members" until some fundie gets their back up against the wall and has to explain an an example OT divine justice overreacting.

09-18-2003, 03:07 PM	#1
Swifter Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: CA Posts: 37	Elisha and the Bears Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone had any sources on this. Basically I got dragged into a debate at RR forums. I'm not the best at debating, but I want to give it a shot. Basically they are claiming that the children were young men that were violent and threatining Elisha's life. To me it definitely doesn't seem like that. Anyone have any info from scholars who have translated this? Or anything helpful? they gave me this link that claims that young men encompass anyone from 12 to 30. As well as other things. and this link too. Any help would be appreciated =)

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09-18-2003, 03:21 PM	#2
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Welcome to the forums! Check with the mods here--who can probably explain searching for topics better than I can--however, there was a discussion on Biblical inerrancy in which this matter arose. Some tried the same tactic you explain. Basically, it was demolished. --J.D.

09-18-2003, 03:25 PM	#3
judge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bli Bli Posts: 3,135	If the same word is used in the 1 Kings to describe men in the army then I don't see any reason to think they were not also this age.

09-18-2003, 03:41 PM	#4
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	In the long run, what difference does their age make? It may seem worse if they were merely children, but I'd argue that having a bunch of people mauled or killed by bears merely for their taunting of Elisha is quite an overreaction, whatever their age. Why not just strike them dumb for a couple of hours, paralyze them for a bit, have their hair fall out, or some other less violent reaction?

09-18-2003, 03:42 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Searching for "elisha bears" in BC&H gives 10 threads. The latest and longest one was this: "Plenty of atrocities and brutality in the OT" and it has a long discussion on the details of Elisha and the two bears.

09-18-2003, 03:54 PM	#6
Heathen Dawn Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 4,656	Hey Swifter, They actually let infidels post on RaptureReady? That’s a new one on me.

09-18-2003, 04:02 PM	#7
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Swifter: Toto found it! Happy reading. . . . --J.D.

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