James The Least

Yep. The problem was not the Roman occupiers, but the rabbis. They were the real enemies of the Jewish people, not the Romans. The Romans were the good guys, sticking up for a common man like Yeshua, just like the gospels say. :Cheeky:

Grog

Yes, I used to believe strongly in this revolutionary Jesus, peasant leader a la Zapata. Back in the day, wandering around Chiapas and seeing peasants selling their Marcos and Ramona dolls on the streets of Yajalon, San Cristobal, and Palenque, I could well imagine how legends around a Jesus rebel could have emerged in oppressed Galilee. In between political campaigns, I used to search libraries for any trace of that character. I thought with Crossan's work that my search ended, but the hypothetical character excavated by the likes of Crossan, Vermes, and Fredriksen was a hollow cardboard construction.

outhouse

he wasnt a revolutionary.

just someone who thought he figured out a peaceful way to beat the romans at their own game. Unfortunately the roman infection into jewish money was to deep, and when you tick off the treasury on pay day, you end up on a cross singing the blues.


he wasnt even a peasant leader, he didnt have a large enough following to be a leader.


more or less a traveling teacher/healer that worked for dinner scraps.



yet they never did. they emerged in the heart of roman empire.

and the hellenistic deity that emerged matched that of many roman mortal men, NOT the jewish promised messiah


Sorry I like Johnathon Green and Marvin Meyers more the Crossan, allthough Green ran with Crossan for a while.


Of course I dont follow any one scholars view

outhouse

False and true

False that the roman's were not a problem. They were, they extorted so much money they kept the jews in poverty, starvation and diseased. The jews had it so bad they were on the brink of war constantly during jesus life time, they even had a tax war when jesus was a child in Galilee. The jews knew a war was genocide but it didnt matter death was better then what the romans were giving.


true that the temple raped the people, now rabbis is a vague term, the Saducees were in bed with the romans and took advantage of the people in any way they could to help the roman taxation as they were making money from it.

they were not the only ones.

the rabbis were also raping the people in the name of tithes using roman muscle to get what they want.


says the roman authors of the NT making the jews seem as the bad guys


the people who wrote the mythoogy are what amounts to be jesus mortal enemy, so ya keep running with that [facepalm]

James The Least

It sounds like you are in agreement with the NT authors. The real enemy of the Jews were the Jews, not the Romans. That might be a tenable theory if we had evidence of mass numbers of Jews defecting to Christianity out of their disillusionment with the Pharisees and Sadducees. But of course we have zero evidence for that. We can in fact only document the existence of <12 "Jewish Christians" in the first century.

outhouse

there were 4 sects of jews. not all were against one another.

the Saducees were corrupt the most and in bed directly with romans running the temple.

the other priest were still raping tithes.

thats a corrupt governement not jew against jew and they only represented a minority


NO

the romans were the real scumbags who oppressed the people to the point past starvation.

the only jews who did well were the ones who crawled in bed with the romans.


roman and the corruption that followed with the raping of the country were the enemy.


a roman tax war in Galilee when jesus was a child due to over taxation, and a tax war over tax shortly after jesus died that took down gods house shows who the real enemy of jews was.

The saducees fell when the temple did, before christianity really took off.

so we know they were not liked if they were gone from history after the temple fell


except christianity failed in judaism, in part because jesus was a failed messiah, and he didnt save the temple.

the movement started there as a sect of judaism, which like many were short lived.

outhouse

really ALL we have is jesus inner circle of illiterate fishermen, the bible is silent on the rest and more then likely the 12 is just OT reffernce to the tribes.

James The Least

Yeah. I knew that. I was being facetious when I said we only have evidence of 12 Jewish Christians in the first century. We actually know of zero Jewish Christians in the first century.

James The Least

What evidence do we have for any of the above claims?

outhouse

Who ran the temple, which was also the treasury/bank?? Caiaphas, who put Caiaphas in power?. Roman appointed. Did Pilate every take money from the temple?? yes he built a aquaduct.


Who were the main sect that ran the temple? Saducees who were also part of the Pharisees.

Did these people in power in the temple make money raping jews? yes lots of money, the temple was a buisiness.



what do you really want evidence for? different sects of jews we know existed?

or that there were crooked priest raping tithes?