Martian Astronomer

I've had a couple of random questions about the doctrine of the Trinity as well. I don't know if these would go better in their own threads or not, but I guess the Mods will handle it if they feel the need.

1: Why do the orthodox denominations (and even other Pentecostal/Charasmatic denominations) get all bent out of shape about Oneness Pentecostalism? Near as I can figure, all they're doing is stating a doctrine that is very close to the doctrine of the Trinity, but saying that "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" are "roles" or "manifestations" of God rather than separate persons. I mean, I've heard preachers say flat out that the Trinity is beyond human understanding and description, so why is a slight difference of description such a big deal?

2: Christians believe that throughout the Old Testament, all the members of the Trinity were present, but that the idea of the Trinity was not revealed. God just said that He was one God. Christians also say that in the New Testament, God didn't change, he just revealed that although he is still one God, he's also three; the Son and Holy Spirit just hadn't been revealed yet.

With this in mind, would a Christian consider the possibility that there are other, additional members of the Godhead who are still hidden? I mean, if 1=3, why can't 1=4 or 1=572? (Some translations of Revelation 1:5 and 3:1 reference the "seven spirits of God." I'm not sure how it's usually interpreted.) If God is in the business of giving a revelation that seems final but then changing all the rules, why couldn't it happen again?

reniaa

hmmm been looking into it not sure jesus had to be divine but he did have to be perfect to wipe out the imperfection of adam.

reniaa

Unless the trinity is just a pegan teaching that has got transfered into the church and jesus is in actuality God's son and erm not God but hey i'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Trinity a central christian teaching yet a word that nevers appears in the bible


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

douglas

I think these preachers are just saying this because they don't understand it themselves. Again, Karen Armstrong has a great chapter on the trinity in her book "A History of God (or via: amazon.co.uk)."

Greek philosophers used a couple terms that are related to the trinity. ouisa and hypostasis. Ouisa is the essence of something. Kind of like your inner nature. Hypostasis is how you make yourself known to other people. Think of it as the expressions on your face, or body language, voice inflection, etc. through which you reveal your "essence" to the people around you. God's "ouisa" can't be conceived, but we can glimpse it through his "hypostasis" which is in the form of the father, son, & holy spirit. Gregory of Nyssa contributed much to the trinity concept.

As was already stated, the trinity was mainly a contemplative exercise.

douglas

The Way International is another. But let's be honest. Jehovah's witnesses believe the trinity is satanic. In other words, it was created by satan to pull people further away from god.

From the Watchtower...

Salam

OK, let's say Jesus is perfect but not divine. Then God is able to create another perfect human being who's able to carry our sins. This is a major problem to Christianity, the person then must be uncreated, and being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father, as the Nicene Creed states. Therefore, he must be God.

Chili

Either that or JW's are satanic and those 'fuzzy feelings' they get are satanic.

The trinity is a very simple concept wherein our left brain is the son, our right brain is the father and the HS is the relationship between these two.

The hypostatic union is wherein these two minds become one in the final ousia that is also called parousia wherein our world comes to en end . . . because we are no longe there.

reniaa

still doesn't explain why trinity as a word doesn't appear in the bible which it would for such a central teaching. It amuses me no end how trinitarians constantly try to explain 3 into 1 by as many means possible. Always missing the point that the bible says more than anything else that jesus is God's son, he could be just that, a special creation made before everything else. We are made in god's image and if a man has a son he a separate being to his dad he can be a lot like him but he is still separate.

why would the bible call jesus God's son knowing how we view father and son relationships then bring in the whole 3 in 1 thing...but it doesn't because trinity isn't a bible teaching which is the OP point and one that puts me off most trinity taught christian religions but I keep looking in hope.

the trinitarian belief wasn't confirmed as a definate concept till the council of nicea in 325 AD and strongly influenced by the overseership of constantine.

It could be safe to say without John 1:1 there would be no trinity.

Lucretius

I have heard an argument that as Elohim is a plural word, the plural of El in fact , and is used in the OT then this implies (if not anything stronger ) that God was "multiple" from the beginning so that while not specifically stated as three ,the people who understood the Hewbrew would know this "uniplurality" as being the case .

http://www.whoisjesus.com/elohim.html

douglas

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. As Chili has already pointed out, you have a father, and you have a son. The "holy spirit" supposedly represents the love that exists between them. Hence, the trinity.

A trinitarian would argue that you can't only have a father and a son. You must have a spiritual bond that connects them. If there is no bond, than they are just two unrelated, unconnected strangers.