Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steve Schlicht · 12-04-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Pure coincidence?...I could not tell, but neither can you.

Since it cannot be a repeated ability of yours I would say it is more likely a coincidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Quote:

In this case it's an isolated event because its not like this is happening every day, so there is no "majority" of misses...
I consider this case curious but not conclusive.

Oh, I agree that the mind and time perception is curious and interesting.

I've had a song in my head and not heard it on the radio as well, though I've not conducted exhaustive studies of such occurrences.

The misses exist and, again, it is more than likely that pure coincidence is at work here rather than some telepathic paranormal event (by implication) or gap in the matrix or a gift from beyond space and time, etc.

I await the evidence, until then I'm skeptical of the event.

Steve

Lógos Sokratikós · 12-05-2006, 08:12 AM

I received a PM today. A warm message, whose name I shall not disclose, nor the message. He knows who I'm talking about, so thank you very much and a big cyberspatial hug to you.

I replied in the following manner, and I wish to post it because it shows where I'm standing today:

Quote:

Thank you very much. I tried that other times, and I could. But now, "I know too much". I know how impossible it is that the bible god to exist. Too many contradictions, too many absurdities. Right now I'm exploring eastern philosophical traditions, and I have found them quite enlightening, without having to go back to implausibilities.

Thank you very much. I understand the importance of spirituality, and although I recognized this since -boy!- I can't remember, I "never had the time"... or better: I had the "never had the time" excuse to not explore them. But reality bites, and it also slaps you awake at times!

Humanism gives lip service to the need for "a spirituality", but humanists in general have been too entanlged in anti-theist struggles, even anti-religion struggles... I even felt that on IIDB, where I get the feeling that for so many here, whatever a Christian says must be stupid, whatever a Christian says is awful. There was even a thread recently where they asked if Christians should be neutered!

I believe that the god(s) of abrahamic religions* are immensely improbable to exist, but I have no problem in people believing if that doesn't stop them from being compassionate and rational. There are millions of Christians who are in favor of people who are different from them, like gays, having the same rights as they do, or who are against war, for instance. I think a tree is good if its fruits are good.

Peace and love,
Lógos Sokratikós

Lógos Sokratikós · 12-05-2006, 08:23 AM

Omagawd! Logos is going Chinese!!!!

No, not really, just trying a new flavor syrup on my waffles, so to speak. Same mud, only something new is blooming.

Alethias · 12-05-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lógos Sokratikós

I believe that the god(s) of abrahamic religions* are immensely improbable to exist, but I have no problem in people believing if that doesn't stop them from being compassionate and rational. There are millions of Christians who are in favor of people who are different from them, like gays, having the same rights as they do, or who are against war, for instance. I think a tree is good if its fruits are good.

Well-said, sir, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Regards, Alethias
Humanist/Non-supernaturalist

No Robots · 12-05-2006, 09:27 AM

What sucks is not atheism, but absolute materialism, which frequently equates itself with atheism. Idealist atheism is a great thing. It is freedom from God. Materialism holds out nothing for man's mind. It is a recipe for despair. In contrast, here are words from our two greatest atheist idealists:

The human mind cannot be absolutely destroyed with the body, but there remains of it something which is eternal.--Spinoza, Ethics 5,23

Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.--Mt. 7:7

Rev. Timothy G. Muse · 12-05-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lógos Sokratikós

...Last week, Saturday before dawn, my grandfather died...

Lógos Sokratikós
Reluctant Atheist

Logos,

My deepest sympathy to you in the death of your grandfather.

Tim

Lógos Sokratikós · 12-05-2006, 10:31 AM

Thank you. Wow!

steamer · 12-05-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard

If people believe in something it’s not imaginary to them, no matter how ridiculous it may sound. When it comes to hope, how can anyone determine what’s imaginary hope and what’s not?

I think people do manage to decide. People who jump from burning buildings to their deaths have given up hope that some imagined helecopter is going to come and get them before they die a horribly painful immolation. People with false hope may suffer the horrible death instead.

False hope is also dangerous in that it seems it would focus the mind on that hope, rather than look around for real hope.

The point though was that the idea of heaven doesn't actually offer any real hope. Heaven is a fantasy land and even if it does exist as some try to describe, then it is still a purposeless existence without any meaning and still without hope. All of the Christian versions of heaven I've heard have failed to offer any hope, purpose or meaning to either this life or the next.

Howard · 12-05-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamer

I think people do manage to decide. People who jump from burning buildings to their deaths have given up hope that some imagined helicopter is going to come and get them before they die a horribly painful immolation. People with false hope may suffer the horrible death instead.

The hope is that they’ll have an afterlife with God, not in how they die,

Quote:

False hope is also dangerous in that it seems it would focus the mind on that hope, rather than look around for real hope.

We’re talking about a loved one dying. There is no real hope.

Quote:

The point though was that the idea of heaven doesn't actually offer any real hope. Heaven is a fantasy land and even if it does exist as some try to describe, then it is still a purposeless existence without any meaning and still without hope. All of the Christian versions of heaven I've heard have failed to offer any hope, purpose or meaning to either this life or the next.

That’s because you don’t believe in heaven. To people who do believe, it’s a real hope. Whether or not it’s imaginary doesn’t matter. It’s how you feel when you’re alive that matters.

Lógos Sokratikós · 12-05-2006, 06:48 PM

True. That's what I meant all along when I said "atheism sucks". I mean, if atheism/naturalism is the most realistic map of reality, that's one thing, but if it's a good site to plant the tent of hope and felicity, that's another.

12-05-2006, 09:27 AM	#165
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	What sucks is not atheism, but absolute materialism, which frequently equates itself with atheism. Idealist atheism is a great thing. It is freedom from God. Materialism holds out nothing for man's mind. It is a recipe for despair. In contrast, here are words from our two greatest atheist idealists: The human mind cannot be absolutely destroyed with the body, but there remains of it something which is eternal.--Spinoza, Ethics 5,23 Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.--Mt. 7:7

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12-05-2006, 08:23 AM	#163
Lógos Sokratikós Contributor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virtually right here where you are Posts: 11,138	Omagawd! Logos is going Chinese!!!! No, not really, just trying a new flavor syrup on my waffles, so to speak. Same mud, only something new is blooming.

12-05-2006, 10:31 AM	#167
Lógos Sokratikós Contributor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virtually right here where you are Posts: 11,138	Thank you. Wow!

12-05-2006, 06:48 PM	#170
Lógos Sokratikós Contributor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virtually right here where you are Posts: 11,138	True. That's what I meant all along when I said "atheism sucks". I mean, if atheism/naturalism is the most realistic map of reality, that's one thing, but if it's a good site to plant the tent of hope and felicity, that's another.

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