meritocrat

How CAN big government be justified??

Government is FORCE!! It REQUIRES force in order to survive!! So really the state should be at a MINIMUM!!

Take government programmes. They SELDOM work!!

davidm

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the civil rights program, the space program, the Defense Department, the National Highway system, the homesteading and land-grant acts of the 19th century, the national postal system, OSHA, the Environmental Protection Agency, desegregation, public schools, the ...

Oh, I could go on, but I suppose someone will now argue that all those programs have or had flaws of various sorts, so we should have left everything in private hands. It will be overlooked that the purpose of most of these programs was to address ills that already existed and were not properly addressed by "private hands."

theyeti

I would say the government is a contract. All contracts have to be enforced.

I agree. But my definition of "minimum" includes public education; funding for scientific research, transportation and communications infrastructure, and utilities; public heathcare; a social safety net, including unemployment insurance, job training, and aid to the poor; regulations to protect the environment, workers, and consumers; and a number of other things. We should get rid of the rest.

At any rate, the notion that the state should be at a minimum does not logically follow from the fact that the government is "force", or more accurately, that it consists of laws that are backed up by force.

Perhaps you should elborate. Which programs are you referring to? What would a program have to do in order to "work" according to your standards? How does said program compare to private sector attempts at addressing the problem, assuming the private sector addresses the problem at all?

theyeti

meritocrat

Apart from defence, all those programmes are unnecessary!!

Social security does not reduce poverty!! The civil rights program violates rights to freedom of association!!

By working I mean that a government programme is successful!!

In my country, the New Deal for the unemployed DOES NOT WORK (and before anyone says anything, yes unemployment has fallen, but it did so UNDER THE CONSERVATIVES TOO!!!)

Tau

Just curious: what precisely do you mean by "unnecessary" when talking about government programmes? Unnecessary for what?

meritocrat

If they are necessary, then why don't they PERFORM as well as intended?!!

They NEVER do!! Government doesn't WORK!!

BDS

Good point, meritocrat. Of course when we eliminate government, we also eliminate private property (as I'm sure you're aware). After all, private property exists only as a result of government's laws and the enforcement of those laws.

So when meritocrat has 3 other families sleeping in "his" house, he can contemplate that they really don't need welfare or social security, now that they are allowed to sleep in "his" house and eat "his" food.

meritocrat

Well an anarcho-capitalist would tell you that private property can exist WITHOUT the state!!!

variant 13

Because we're human and can fuck up, it doesn't mean they're not necessary, just poorly run.

And a layperson will ask you:

"What the fuck are you on about?"

Big government makes big projects possible.

And yet they persist, with nothing much better to replace them with unless you have a suggestion? Come on I know you do, you're just waiting for someone to ask, well I have so off you go.....

meritocrat

Well it should just be LEFT TO THE FREE MARKET!!!