FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-17-2007, 11:31 PM   #71
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1/2 mile west of the Rio sin Grande
Posts: 397
Default And finally (following the rule of three) ...

The following is condensed from Excavating Jesus by John Dominic Crossan and Jonathan L. Reed. Reference was also made to Jonathan L. Reed's Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus, Jack Finegan's Archaeology of the New Testament, Richard A. Horsley's Galilee: History, Politics, People and Archaeology, History and Society in Galilee, The Anchor Bible Dictionary, Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible, and the Harper Bible Dictionary.

In order to find 1st century Nazareth, you have to dig through several layers in Lower Galilee. The Byzantine period (mid-4th to 7th century) is the time of imperial finances, architects, churches, shrines—and pilgrims. The Middle and Late Roman periods (2nd to mid-4th century) saw considerable population growth in this area of Galilee, with numerous refugees from Judea and Jerusalem after the two Jewish wars of 66-74 and 132-35. One of the priestly courses, the course of Hapizez or Hapises, from the Temple relocated to Nazareth, confirmed by a 3rd century inscription found in Caesarea. The Mishnah was committed to writing, ca. 200, in nearby Sepphoris under the leadership of Rabbi Judah the Prince (who also founded and secured the Patriarchate for his family). The Early Roman Period (mid-1st century BCE to 1st century CE) or Herodian Period saw the building of Tiberius, as well as the building, destruction and rebuilding of Sepphoris. There is little evidence of Roman influence in Nazareth during this period. The Late Hellenistic Period (2nd to mid-1st century BCE) saw a sparsely settled, somewhat isolated Galilee, governed afar by Hasmonean Jerusalem. Several Hasmonean forts and outposts helped secure the rural area. There were no major cities.

Outside the Gospels and the early Christian texts that rely on the Gospels, there are no pre-Constantinian references to Nazareth. It is not mentioned in the Mishnah. Josephus, general in Galilee during the first Jewish revolt, never mentions it. Neither is it mentioned in the Old Testament, though 15 neighboring sites that were part of Zebulun’s tribal allotment are counted (Josh 19:10-15). This tiny hamlet apparently paid its taxes and caused no trouble for anyone of significance.

The archaeological layers of Nazareth itself—three layers stand out: 20th century, with its pilgrimage-tourist industry; the Crusades, when monks, clerics, and a bishop lived there with Knights Templar protection; the Byzantine, with the hamlet's first shrines, basilicas and monasteries.

Excavations took place in the 1930s and 1960s in conjunction with remodeling and new construction, which cut through to bedrock in search of solid foundations.

A set of ornate capitals, hidden since 1187, was found. On them were depicted scenes from the lives of the apostles, apostles that looked European, not Semitic, with medieval accessories and regal clothes, not those of the peasant.

Underneath the unfinished Crusader church were the foundations of a Byzantine church and monastery, which date from the 5th century.

Below those foundations was two meters of debris with architectural elements of an earlier structure: unadorned capitals, crudely hewn column shafts, five column bases, arch imposts, cornices, etc. Their style is typical of Jewish synagogues of the 3rd century CE., with workmanship akin to that of the Late Roman Period. None of the ceramic material in this fill suggests a date earlier than 3rd-4th century, thus it was not a synagogue from the time of Jesus.

Throughout Palestine, only one synagogue from a Jewish village or town has been found that dates from Jesus' time, at Gamla, in the Golan. Two other sites, at the Herodian and Masada, have structures that were built into earlier Herodian complexes by Jewish rebels who occupied them during the revolt of 66-74. However, in both cases, they were not originally synagogues, but rooms converted for communal use by those rebels. Excavations and inscriptions testify to a number of 1st century synagogues throughout the Diaspora, but in Palestine, with the Temple, priests and sacrifices nearby, the term synagogue, seems to have referred to a gathering, not to a building. The synagogue at Nazareth postdates Jesus by two centuries, leaving an interesting problem for Luke 4:16-30.

Excavations below the synagogue layers uncovered no fortification, no palace, no bathhouse, no paved streets, nothing other than olive and wine presses, water cisterns, grain silos, and grinding stones scattered around caves that formed the “back rooms” of simple peasant houses. Elsewhere in Galilee, there is little sign of habitation between the 8th century BCE invasion by Assyrian Tiglath Pileser III and the sparse resettlement by the Hasmoneans in the 2nd century BCE. The people of Nazareth were likely descendants of Hasmonean colonizers.

The site lies in a bowl atop the Nazareth range, which separates the Nahal Zoppori and Beit Natofah Valley, on the north, from the large Jezreel Valley, to the south.

An upward incline from the Jezreel Valley to Nazareth allowed only twisted footpaths. A trade road that ran along the east-west axis of the range linking Tiberius on the Sea of Galilee to Ptolamais on the Mediterranean along the Beit Netofah Valley, just north of Sepphoris. Sepphoris, rebuilt in Jesus' time, lay about four miles north of Nazareth—about an hour and a half's walk along a climb over the hill's crest, a steep descent, then a sloping incline.


Nazareth's south-facing slopes allowed for grapevines. The ravines could support olive trees. Fields on the slopes were suitable for crops of wheat, barely, and millet. Some alluvial soil south of the village was fertile enough for vegetables and legumes. Terraces built into the steeper slopes maximized grain harvests and cold support fig and pomegranate trees. On the western edge of the village was a water source, though not a perennial one. Many underground tombs were found chiseled into soft limestone, all done in typical Jewish style of the period. Burial was customarily outside of inhabited areas, thus the tombs delineate the village perimeter on the west, east and south. Steep ravines and ancient terraces bounded the northern border of this ovoid-shaped settlement—2,000 feet at its greatest east-west length, about 650 feet at its greatest north-south width. However these limits are from the later Roman period. In the 1st century, the area was likely about ten acres. As an agrarian site, with room for livestock and orchards or communally shared “truck” gardens, and consequently low population density, the inhabitants probably numbered between two to four hundred—several extended families or clans.

There is little evidence of the village's homes: no roof tiles, no limestone blocks, no flat stone pavers or mosaics, no evidence of plaster or fresco. In these circumstances, we may assume that the homes were similar to those in other villages of Galilee and Golan, i.e. constructed with stacked, unhewn field stones, with smaller stones packed into the larger gaps and then smeared with clay, mud, or even dung mixed with straw for insulation. Floors were packed dirt or beaten earth. No arches, girders or roof tiles indicate that roofs were thatched. Wooden ceiling beams would support a thick bed of straw or reeds, which was then covered with packed mud to protect against dampness and provide insulation. Many of the houses had bell-shaped cisterns for storing water, some also with plastered cisterns for storing grain. Many homes were built around caves that were used for living space. The caves were dry and warm in the rainy winters, cool in hot summers.

Small finds and artifacts from this pre-Byzantine period are all quite modest: a handful of coins (bronze, no silver), some cheap jewelry, very little glass, no bronze or other metal cups and bowls. Pottery from the Late Hellenistic and Roman Periods is almost all locally made and is utilitarian: cooking pots, casserole dishes, water jugs, storage jars, no imported amphorae as have been found in Scythopolis, Caesarea, and Herod's palaces.

This all points to a peasant existence and to a Jewish Nazareth. The tombs are typically Jewish: initial burial in body-length shafts (loculi) cut at right angles into the tomb chamber walls. Large stones, rolled into place, sealed the tombs. Once the flesh had decayed over the course of a year, the denuded bones were gathered into either a shaft, a separate repository, or an ossuary or bone-box.

Two stepped, plastered pools (miqwaoth) were found. Used for ritual-purity immersion, they are found throughout Jewish sites in Galilee, the Golan and Judea. One of the ritual baths dates from the period of that later synagogue. The other was likely a shared facility used by the villagers of Jesus' time. Several fragments of stone vessels from the Roman period, of soft limestone or chalk and typical of Jewish homes in Palestine, were also found.

Thus: a tiny village, off the main road, over the hill but within walking distance of Sepphoris. Farmers: scraping by with enough to pay their taxes, avoiding the attention of area officials, and in good crop years able to lay a little away (only bronze coins were found). Likely also, they circumcised their sons, celebrated Passover, rested on the Sabbath, and valued the traditions of Moses and the prophets.

The course of Hapizez must have pretty low in the Temple hierarchy to merit relocation in Nazareth.
mens_sana is offline  
Old 11-18-2007, 06:41 AM   #72
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,014
Thumbs up Thanks. Slow but Steady Progress Unravelling a Mystery

Hi mens_sans,

Thanks, this is great stuff, although, it is a pity that the Hebrew has not reproduced. Is there any chance of putting the images online?

So far, to my knowledge, the really fantastic nature of this discovery has not been mentioned. Not only in this one fragment of parts of four words has Avi-yonah apparently discovered the alleged hometown of Jesus, but he has also apparently discovered the alleged hometown of Mary Magdalene -- Migdal.

Thus Avi-Yonah has discovered both the hometowns of Jesus and his alleged concubine Mary written in Hebrew in a tiny fragment containing parts of four words -- Indeed, a most fantastic discovery!

"A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest"
Paul Simon

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay





Quote:
Originally Posted by mens_sana View Post
Unfortunately, the Hebrew font did not reproduce. I also have photos of the shards, taken from the article

A List of Priestly Courses from Caesarea
M. AVI-YONAH
Hebrew University, Jerusalem

In the course of excavations undertaken at Caesarea by The Department of Archaeology of the Hebrew University, with the assistance of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky, and the Department for the Improvement of the Landscape and Restoration of Historic Sites of the Prime Minister’s Office,1 fragments of a Hebrew inscription were found. Because of their exceptional interest it has been decided to bring them to wider notice in advance of the fuller publication.

Fragment A. Slab of dark-grey marble, 153 by 124 mm. And 24 mm. thick. It contains four lines, broken off at both ends. The letters are 23-25 mm. high in lines 1-2, 16-20 mm. high in lines 3-4 (Pl. 13A). The reading, which presents no difficulty, is: .. ��*../..��*../ ../ ��*..

The fragment was found in area D of the excavations,2 in a trench 5 m. wide across an elongated elevation parallel to the sea-shore and in the vicinity of the synagogue area. The material from sector D IV, where the fragment was found, was mainly Hellenistic, but included some traces of Late Roman and Byzantine.

Fragment B. Greyish marble, 145 by 140 mm., 24 mm. thick. Three beginnings of lines at the left, each 20 mm. high; margin 120 mm. wide to the right (Pl. 13B). The three lines begin with the same letters: ../../..

Fragment B was found in area F,3 70 m. south of area D. It was found reused in the marble pavement of a Late Byzantine room; among the other paving stones was part of a synagogue chancel screen, showing an ethrog and a lulah.

A third fragment, picked up on the surface at Caesarea,4 reads: [ ] [] / []  [] / []  []

It seems that the three fragments formed part of one and the same marble slab, inscribed with a list of the priestly courses (1 Chron. 25:7-18) in their order, together with their surnames and the name of the locality to which they had moved after the destruction of the Second Temple. A fragment of a similar inscription: ….. /…. /… was found in Ascalon,5 proving the prevalence of this custom of commemorating the courses in the Palestinian synagogues. We can therefore complete the Caesarea fragments thus:

The 17th course Hezir] MA[MLIAH
The 18th course Hapizzez NAZARETH 6
The 19th course Pethahiah AKHLAH Arab
The 20th course Ezekiel [MI]GDAL Nunaiya
For an attempt to restore the whole inscription, see Fig. 1.

Liturgical poems originating in Palestine in the sixth to seventh centuries A. D. have preserved the complete list of the priestly families and their seats, which has been elucidated and commented on by Prof. S. Klein.7 The present fragments prove that the custom of relating the order of courses to the order of Sabbaths dates back at least to the third to fourth centuries;8 the use of the order for calendar purposes is attested for the Dead Sea sect and was certainly borrowed by it from orthodox Jewry.

The various implications of this find as regards synagogal liturgy and decoration will be discussed by the author in the full publication now being prepared. 9
. . . .

1. The Excavations were directed by the writer, with the assistance of Mr. A. Negev, Professor J. Vardaman of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Mr. E. Oren, Mrs. Rachel Hakhlili, Miss Mira Shpilberg, Mr. A. Ovadiah.
2. Prof. J. Vardaman was in charge of this section.
3. Mr. E. Oren was in charge of area F.
4. A photograph was published by S. Talmon: The Calendar-Reckoning of the Sect from the Judaean Desert, Scripta Hierosolymitana 4 (1958), p. 171; a drawing in B. Mazar et al., ed.: Views of the Biblical World IV, Jerusalem, 1961, p. 257.
5. E. L. Sukenick: Three Ancient Jewish Inscriptions from Eretz-Israel, Zion 1 (1926), pp. 16-17 (Hebrew); S. Klein, ibid., p. 20. Prof. Klein proposed to read _ _ _ _ _ _ . In view of our inscription it seems preferable to understand this fragment: _ _ _ _ _ . Cf. also E. L. Sukenick: The Synagogue of Hamath-Gader, Jerusalem, 1935, pp. 156-157; J. B. Frey: Corpus Inscriptionum Iudaicarum, II, Roma, 1952, No. 962.
6. This is the earliest mention of Nazareth apart from the New Testament and the pilgrims’ texts; it is the only mention so far known in any inscription.
7. S. Klein: Beiträge zur Geogr. U. Gesch. Galiläas, Leipzig, 1909; iden: Neue Beiträge, Wien, 1923, pp. 47-48. Sefer ha-Yishuv, Jerusalem, 1939, pp. 168-173, esp. p. 172.
8. I owe this date to my colleague, Prof. N. Avigad.
9. To be published in Hebrew in EI 7. An English edition is also in preparation.
PhilosopherJay is offline  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:25 AM   #73
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,014
Default

Hi All,

It turns out, apparently, that the discovery of the fragment was actually made by the Christian archaeologist J. Vardaman, and not by the Jewish archaeologist Avi-Yonah.

Quote:
The fragment was found in area D of the excavations,{2} in a trench 5 m. wide across an elongated elevation parallel to the sea-shore and in the vicinity of the synagogue area. The material from sector D IV, where the fragment was found, was mainly Hellenistic, but included some traces of Late Roman and Byzantine.

{2.} Prof. J. Vardaman was in charge of this section."
Here is an interesting article about another fantastic discovery of Dr. Vardaman's. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-83585959.html

Pseudohistory in Jerry Vardaman's magic coins: the nonsense of micro graphic letters


Thus, I must correct my last post. It is J. Vardaman who discovered "in a ditch in the vicinity" of a "synogogue area" in Caesarea, the fragment of marble containing parts of four Hebrew words that contains both the names of Jesus and Mary's hometowns.

Curiouser and Curiouser.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:
Originally Posted by mens_sana View Post
Unfortunately, the Hebrew font did not reproduce. I also have photos of the shards, taken from the article

A List of Priestly Courses from Caesarea
M. AVI-YONAH
Hebrew University, Jerusalem

In the course of excavations undertaken at Caesarea by The Department of Archaeology of the Hebrew University, with the assistance of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky, and the Department for the Improvement of the Landscape and Restoration of Historic Sites of the Prime Minister’s Office,1 fragments of a Hebrew inscription were found. Because of their exceptional interest it has been decided to bring them to wider notice in advance of the fuller publication.

Fragment A. Slab of dark-grey marble, 153 by 124 mm. And 24 mm. thick. It contains four lines, broken off at both ends. The letters are 23-25 mm. high in lines 1-2, 16-20 mm. high in lines 3-4 (Pl. 13A). The reading, which presents no difficulty, is: .. ��*../..��*../ ../ ��*..

The fragment was found in area D of the excavations,2 in a trench 5 m. wide across an elongated elevation parallel to the sea-shore and in the vicinity of the synagogue area. The material from sector D IV, where the fragment was found, was mainly Hellenistic, but included some traces of Late Roman and Byzantine.

{snip}
1. The Excavations were directed by the writer, with the assistance of Mr. A. Negev, Professor J. Vardaman of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Mr. E. Oren, Mrs. Rachel Hakhlili, Miss Mira Shpilberg, Mr. A. Ovadiah.
2. Prof. J. Vardaman was in charge of this section.

{ snip}
PhilosopherJay is offline  
Old 11-18-2007, 11:06 AM   #74
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,014
Default Coincidences Multiplied

Hi All,

Here is something interesting.

In the March 1962 issue of the Journal of Biblical Literature, J Vardaman has an article called on the discovery of the A New Inscription Which Mentions Pilate as "Prefect" Jerry Vardaman Journal of Biblical Literature > Vol. 81, No. 1 (Mar., 1962), pp. 70-71

I assume the article was written in late 1961. The article describes the finding of an inscription in Caesarea mentioning the Prefect Pontius Pilate by the archaeologist Antonio Frova. It was the only archaeological evidence of Pilate found up to that point.

I find two things curious. There are, according to Vardaman, four visible lines of letters -- the second one containing the important reference to Pilate. Secondly, he says that the Latin inscription was found in a "time and place where Greek was ordinarily used."

Less than a year later, after writing this piece, Vardaman discovers in Caesarea an inscription fragment containing exactly four visible lines of letters, the second one containing the important archaeological reference to Nazareth. Avi-Yonan noted in his report that the "the material from sector D IV, where the fragment was found, was mainly Hellenistic, but included some traces of Late Roman and Byzantine." In other words, just as the Frova-Pilate inscription was found in an unexpected place, this fragment too was found in a time and place where it was not expected to be found.

We may put down the fact that both inscriptions had four lines and were both found in unexpected places in Casarea to coincidence, or suggest the possibility that Vardaman created the second inscription by copy-catting the Frova-Pilate find. He produced the four lines of text and put it in a place where Hebrew would not ordinarily be found.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay






1. The inscription found by Frova has four lines
PhilosopherJay is offline  
Old 11-19-2007, 04:06 AM   #75
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spin View Post
[It might be safest of course to give the letters one at a time by their names, but there is a standard internet transliteration system of Hebrew into ascii:

)BGDHWZX+YKLMNS(PCQR$T
Thanks Spin

using this system
Fragment 1 is

Line 1 reads MLYX
Line 2 reads NCRT
Line 3 reads )KLH
Line 4 reads GDL

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 11-19-2007, 05:52 AM   #76
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,230
Default

Thanks for the info, mens-sana. Where did you find this article?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mens_sana View Post

In the course of excavations undertaken at Caesarea by The Department of Archaeology of the Hebrew University, with the assistance of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky,
Southern Baptist is a red flag.

Quote:

The fragment was found in area D of the excavations,2 in a trench 5 m. wide across an elongated elevation parallel to the sea-shore and in the vicinity of the synagogue area. The material from sector D IV, where the fragment was found, was mainly Hellenistic, but included some traces of Late Roman and Byzantine.
I hope they are being more specific about IDing materials than archeologists were with the lamps here, apparently mis-IDed as Hellenistic.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/scandalindex2

Quote:
the primary archaeologist at Nazareth (Bellarmino Bagatti) assigns an artefact on one page to the IRON AGE (c. 1200 BCE-c. 600 BCE), and a few pages later assigns the same artefact to the MIDDLE ROMAN PERIOD...

For we see that Bagatti’s use of the word “Hellenistic” on p. 285 is entirely inappropriate. He signals the typical Roman features of this jar, not Hellenistic ones! It would appear that the archaeologist has simply found another excuse to falsely introduce the word “Hellenistic” into his book...

These six oil lamps were discovered in a Nazareth tomb, and have been used in the scholarly literature (photo from QDAP 1931, Pl. XXXIV.2) as proof of a village at Nazareth in Hellenistic times, that is, as early as the third century BCE. In fact, the six lamps date from the Middle Roman to the Late Roman periods, long after the time of Christ... etc.
back to your article:

Quote:
1. The Excavations were directed by the writer, ...Professor J. Vardaman of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, ...
2. Prof. J. Vardaman was in charge of this section.
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mens_sana View Post
“Nazareth exhibits archaeological remains from the Middle Bronze II, Iron II, and late Hellenistic periods, but its heyday was in the Early Roman period.” (This is the period of the Herodian tombs, located outside the village per Jewish law.)
How are early and middle Roman periods so clearly differentiated?

Acc to article I linked to, "Herodian" style pots can be from anywhere between 25-150 CE! So, saying this area had its "heyday" in the early period, might just be wishful thinking? One would think a "heyday" would start after the Judaeans were exiled from Jerusalem and much of Judaea, and forced to relocate.

Quote:
“The sequence of occupations at Nazareth follows: (1) Middle Bronze tombs; (2) scattered Iron II remains; (3) Late Hellenistic to Early Roman caves with domestic installations, some used as late as the Byzantine period;
Other info I've read said the caves were too damp to be habitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mens_sana View Post
The following is condensed from Excavating Jesus by John Dominic Crossan and Jonathan L. Reed. ...

In order to find 1st century Nazareth, you have to dig through several layers in Lower Galilee...The Middle and Late Roman periods (2nd to mid-4th century) saw considerable population growth in this area of Galilee, with numerous refugees from Judea and Jerusalem after the two Jewish wars of 66-74 and 132-35.
This sounds like the heyday to me. Post-wars, not earlier.

Quote:
The Early Roman Period (mid-1st century BCE to 1st century CE) or Herodian Period saw the building of Tiberius, as well as the building, destruction and rebuilding of Sepphoris. There is little evidence of Roman influence in Nazareth during this period.

Quote:
This tiny hamlet apparently paid its taxes and caused no trouble for anyone of significance.
Speculative. It might've been considered part of Japhia.

Quote:
Below those foundations was two meters of debris with architectural elements of an earlier structure: unadorned capitals, crudely hewn column shafts, five column bases, arch imposts, cornices, etc. Their style is typical of Jewish synagogues of the 3rd century CE., with workmanship akin to that of the Late Roman Period. None of the ceramic material in this fill suggests a date earlier than 3rd-4th century, thus it was not a synagogue from the time of Jesus. ...

in Palestine, with the Temple, priests and sacrifices nearby, the term synagogue, seems to have referred to a gathering, not to a building. The synagogue at Nazareth postdates Jesus by two centuries, leaving an interesting problem for Luke 4:16-30.
Like ecclesia, it seems until after the destruction of the Temple, synogogue meant gathering of people, who met in houses or other structures that were not built just for religious purposes.

Quote:
Excavations below the synagogue layers uncovered no fortification, no palace, no bathhouse, no paved streets, nothing other than olive and wine presses, water cisterns, grain silos, and grinding stones scattered around caves that formed the “back rooms” of simple peasant houses.
IMO, a few farms and vineyards does not neccessarily count as a village or hamlet. It counts as farms, whose produce might've been taken to Sepphoris for sale and trade. We do not know if this area had a proper name at this point. What era exactly did these simple farm tools came from?


Quote:
Nazareth's south-facing slopes allowed for grapevines. The ravines could support olive trees. Fields on the slopes were suitable for crops of wheat, barely, and millet. Some alluvial soil south of the village was fertile enough for vegetables and legumes. Terraces built into the steeper slopes maximized grain harvests and cold support fig and pomegranate trees. On the western edge of the village was a water source, though not a perennial one. Many underground tombs were found chiseled into soft limestone, all done in typical Jewish style of the period. Burial was customarily outside of inhabited areas, thus the tombs delineate the village perimeter on the west, east and south.
Tombs from what period exactly?

Quote:
Steep ravines and ancient terraces bounded the northern border of this ovoid-shaped settlement—2,000 feet at its greatest east-west length, about 650 feet at its greatest north-south width. However these limits are from the later Roman period. In the 1st century, the area was likely about ten acres. As an agrarian site, with room for livestock and orchards or communally shared “truck” gardens, and consequently low population density, the inhabitants probably numbered between two to four hundred—several extended families or clans.

There is little evidence of the village's homes: ... Many of the houses had bell-shaped cisterns for storing water, some also with plastered cisterns for storing grain. Many homes were built around caves that were used for living space. The caves were dry and warm in the rainy winters, cool in hot summers.
Again, other sources said the caves were too damp for living in. The only evidence for homes was cisterns for grain and water storage, and a few farm implements. Some of my ancestors were farmers in PA, and to this day, the area there is not a "village." It's farmland. Nowadays more homes are being built on the land, but there is no central "village."

Quote:
Pottery from the Late Hellenistic and Roman Periods is almost all locally made and is utilitarian: cooking pots, casserole dishes, water jugs, storage jars, no imported amphorae as have been found in Scythopolis, Caesarea, and Herod's palaces.
Again, are they being careful in differentiating time periods, or are they victims of wishful Southern Baptist and tourism-encouraging thinking? I guess the sensationalistic History Channel show will show us in the future!

Quote:

Two stepped, plastered pools (miqwaoth)[mikvot] were found... One of the ritual baths dates from the period of that later synagogue. The other was likely a shared facility used by the villagers of Jesus' time.
Yes and why do they think that? Was there a distinct mikvah style in that time period?:huh:

Quote:
Several fragments of stone vessels from the Roman period, of soft limestone or chalk and typical of Jewish homes in Palestine, were also found.

Thus: a tiny village, off the main road, over the hill but within walking distance of Sepphoris. Farmers...
Farms do not equal village.

Quote:
scraping by with enough to pay their taxes, avoiding the attention of area officials, and in good crop years able to lay a little away (only bronze coins were found).
Bronze coins from when, exactly? We must be precise to have it be from "Jesus' time."

I'm just an amateur, but even this lengthy info you've provided, mens_sana, is so vague as evidence of a village or hamlet in Jesus' time. And Luke calls it a "city" with a mob of people and its own synagogue.
Magdlyn is offline  
Old 11-19-2007, 09:31 AM   #77
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,014
Default Vardaman and Zeta

Hi All,

There is a 1963 article by Vardaman online on the Bethesda Pool.

Jerry Vardaman, "The pool of Bethesda," Bible Translator 14.1 (Jan. 1963): 27-29. available at http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/ar...nslator_02.php

The last paragraph is interesting.

Quote:
Moreover, there is every reason to believe that “Bethesda” as given in many of the most reliable ancient manuscripts, and followed by King James Version, was the correct reading. In this respect, the Revised Standard Version editors have followed a less reliable reading in preferring “Bethzatha” instead of the more accurate “Bethesda” Accordingly, the New English Bible goes back to “Bethesda” as the preferred reading here.
It seems to echo the problem with the spelling of Nazareth and the found inscription. in both cases the Z seems to disappear.


Warmly,

Philosopher Jay


Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcriddle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin View Post
[It might be safest of course to give the letters one at a time by their names, but there is a standard internet transliteration system of Hebrew into ascii:

)BGDHWZX+YKLMNS(PCQR$T
Thanks Spin

using this system
Fragment 1 is

Line 1 reads MLYX
Line 2 reads NCRT
Line 3 reads )KLH
Line 4 reads GDL

Andrew Criddle
PhilosopherJay is offline  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:09 AM   #78
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,787
Default

If someone with access to the Hebrew of this article (or at least to those pages that actually give the inscription itself) is capable of scanning the pages and emailing them to me, I would be happy to post a Hebrew transcription both on this thread and on my website.

Alternately, one can make copies and mail them to me (contact me by PM for my mailing address).

A final alternate would be to transcribe the entire inscription (all fragments) on this thread using the scheme outlined by spin, and I could convert it to Hebrew Unicode.

Thanks.

Ben.
Ben C Smith is offline  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:53 PM   #79
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay View Post
Hi All,

There is a 1963 article by Vardaman online on the Bethesda Pool.

Jerry Vardaman, "The pool of Bethesda," Bible Translator 14.1 (Jan. 1963): 27-29. available at http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/ar...nslator_02.php

The last paragraph is interesting.

Quote:
Moreover, there is every reason to believe that “Bethesda” as given in many of the most reliable ancient manuscripts, and followed by King James Version, was the correct reading. In this respect, the Revised Standard Version editors have followed a less reliable reading in preferring “Bethzatha” instead of the more accurate “Bethesda” Accordingly, the New English Bible goes back to “Bethesda” as the preferred reading here.
It seems to echo the problem with the spelling of Nazareth and the found inscription. in both cases the Z seems to disappear.
These are not the same underlying Hebrew letters. Bethesda contains, not a tsade, but a samek. Bethzatha is related to the name Bethsaida. This may have been confused with Bethesda.


spin
spin is offline  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:22 AM   #80
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,014
Default Vardaman and The Discovery Solution

Hi Spin,

The disappearance of the "Z" in both cases is probably just coincidental.

Perhaps the approach that Vardaman takes is more important to consider. The controversy between the Bethesda and Bethzatha naming of the Pool is decided by a discovery in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Likewise, in his article on the Pontius Pilate inscripition, the discovery decisively decides a controversial issue in favor of one term rather than another: "prefect" rather than "Procurator", and the discovery of the similar spelling of Nazareth on that inscription confirms the spelling of Nazareth on the Cairo Genizah document.

Let me speculate a bit on Vardaman's motivation. What might have been Vardaman's reasons for forging the Nazareth inscription? For him, as a true believer, there could be no doubt that Nazareth existed. A position that it did not exist could only come from ignorance or evil intentions. This would not have motivated Vardaman to do the forgery. However, being an unknown, young archaeologist on a dig with the great and famous old archaeologist, Avi-Yonah. may have provided a motivation. It is difficult to work for someone of a different faith when you are passionate about your faith, it is more difficult when that person is famous and acclaimed in your field and you are unknown. A great discovery, such as the one made the season before in Casarea of the Pilate inscription, would level the distance between the two men.

It would please the vanity of his Jewish boss Avi-Yonah to learn that the Jews had been right versus the Christians regarding the issue of the spelling of the name Nazareth. That might have been a motivation for doing the inscription in Hebrew, instead of Latin or Greek.

With his training in Hebrew and his knowledge of the Cairo Genizah document, it would have been a simple matter to copy the letters in the document and inscribe the letters onto actual material he found during the dig. Doing so would make him famous for a great discovery, as well as pleasing his powerful and influential boss.

Unfortunately, doing so did not, apparently, make him as famous as he wanted to be, probably because Avi-Yonah took credit for the discovery, and thus the need for his amazing discovery of microwriting a few decades later.

Forging the inscription would have taken only a few minutes or hours, but it would have required a great deal of courage, more than the courage of the average archaeologist. However, being an ordained Baptist Minister, ready to die on the cross for his faith, as well as being an ex-marine (Semper Fidelis is their motto), he undoubtedly had the courage.


Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:
Originally Posted by spin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay View Post
Hi All,

There is a 1963 article by Vardaman online on the Bethesda Pool.

Jerry Vardaman, "The pool of Bethesda," Bible Translator 14.1 (Jan. 1963): 27-29. available at http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/ar...nslator_02.php

The last paragraph is interesting.



It seems to echo the problem with the spelling of Nazareth and the found inscription. in both cases the Z seems to disappear.
These are not the same underlying Hebrew letters. Bethesda contains, not a tsade, but a samek. Bethzatha is related to the name Bethsaida. This may have been confused with Bethesda.


spin
PhilosopherJay is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:47 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.