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Old 11-25-2004, 07:53 AM   #21
Y.B
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Old 11-25-2004, 08:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Salieri
I know that atheists think they are indifferent to God, but how can you be both for and against something at the same time?
Eh... what?

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How is that possible? If you are not for Christ, then you are against him.
I'm not even convinced that he existed! And even if he did, why must I be completely for or completely against? Why can't I agree with some things he said and not others? Or is that too complex for you?

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In other words, you either think he is telling the truth or he is lying.
Are you suggesting that it's impossible to lie sometimes and tell the truth sometimes?

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If you simply DOUBT that Christ is telling the truth, then how can you be FOR him?
Who said I was?

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Therefore, you are NOT for him if you doubt him. This is not indifference but you are taking a stand.
Do you even know what you're talking about, or what you're trying to say?

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And since one day you will know the truth, then heaven and hell are fair and just. Heaven and hell EXIST to show us what the truth is. How else could we find out?
Evidence, please. Oh, I forgot, you don't have any.
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Old 11-25-2004, 08:18 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Salieri
In the case of Christ, you have NO alternative other than to be for or against him. You either fight FOR his words, or fight AGAINST his words REGARLDESS OF WHY you fight for or against them. If you think there are other alternatives to Christ then you are fighting AGAINST his words that he is the only way to God, are you not? Even if you think they were made up or are lies, you are STILL fighting AGAINST them! You can call it anything you want, but again, "he who is not for me is against me." Sorry but you guys CANNOT get out of this one unless you become illogical.
The point is that it is IRRELEVANT.

Even if I agree with for example the golden rule. and thus are "FOR" what Christ supposedly said. I am not agreeing that I am For Christ since I am not convinced that a real living Jesus actually said those words. The only evidence we have that he at all said those things are in the bible and the bible is not acceptable as eevidence to me since it is so incoherent and contradictory. So even if I agree with the golden rule it does not mean that I am "for Christ" since I am not sure that Christ at all said the golden rule.

Your assertions misses the point.

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Old 11-25-2004, 08:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Y.B
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I second that. Starting from now I won't respond to any posting Sallieri post.

He had his chance, we have asked for evidence, we have asked for proof and he never bothered to provide any. Not even in a thread he recently starting with the title "Proof of God's existence". Even in that first post he didn't post a single piece of evidence.

I have previously asked him to provide such proof - an excelltn proof would be if he could tell me what project I am working on at work. There is no way he can know that unless his God told him.

Unfortunately, either his God refused to provide him with such an excellent proof (thus, his God is evil and refuse to allow Sallieri to prove himself right), he got the evidence from his God but he refused to let it on and thus wrecking his own stance (not very likely - I am sure he would post it proudly if he had hard evidence that his God exist) or there is no such God. Personally, I am willing to bet on the last alternative.

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Old 11-25-2004, 09:05 AM   #25
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I only hope that he will see the truth of Iluvatar.

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Old 11-25-2004, 09:24 AM   #26
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I only hope that he will see the truth of Iluvatar.

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<removed> I must give Tolkien's Holy Book another read in the future to become a better believer.
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Old 11-25-2004, 09:58 AM   #27
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I agreee :thumbs:

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Old 11-25-2004, 11:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Salieri
People who have never heard of God or Jesus do not KNOW they are doing things against Him, but nevertheless, they still are. They cannot do things God's way until they even KNOW what God says! They CANNOT worship God if they've never heard of Him, much less even KNOW Him. Therefore, their beliefs CANNOT be FOR God and HAVE to be against Him because God tells us to believe in Him! The accountablitiy comes in when we HEAR God's word. that's why jesus said; "If i had not spoken to you you would not be guilty." But now that we've heard God's message we become accountable. The price for not hearing God's word is life without him forvever. That is being beaten with FEW blows. But those who HAVE heard him and willfully rejected him, the price will be severe blows. That's why Jesus said; "He who is not for me is against me". That is true REGARDLESS of whether or not we know his words.
You don't listen do you? Not only this, but it's clear you have no clue as to what you're actually talking about. Just as pointed out by Jack:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salieri (paraphrased)
REGARDLESS of the fact that we can't be certain what Jesus might actually have said, he definitely said "He who is not for me is against me", even if he did not.
...Now, how does this make ANY sense?
First, you assume that we all accept the Bible as an accurate record of what Jesus said and did. Many of us do not believe that this is true, and thus yes - we can and do hold indifference. What evidence do you have that we should in fact hold the biblical record as an accurate one?

Besides this, your entire point is childish in the first place. In what way does this contribute to the "Existence of God" forum, which you originally posted this in? Simply, it is another futile attack against atheists themselves because you have no evidence to argue against our position.

I'm starting to miss Blark and Theophilus, considering this guy.

- Laz
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Old 11-25-2004, 12:23 PM   #29
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Have we defeated you in debate so soundly that you are forced to flee and pretend it never happened? I await your response to me here with bated breath.
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Old 11-25-2004, 12:30 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salieri
I know that atheists think they are indifferent to God, but how can you be both for and against something at the same time? How is that possible? If you are not for Christ, then you are against him. In other words, you either think he is telling the truth or he is lying. If you simply DOUBT that Christ is telling the truth, then how can you be FOR him? Therefore, you are NOT for him if you doubt him. This is not indifference but you are taking a stand. And since one day you will know the truth, then heaven and hell are fair and just. Heaven and hell EXIST to show us what the truth is. How else could we find out?
Look, Salieri, your attempts at flaming and forcing us to choose whether we are on the side of an imaginary character or against it, is getting old. THERE IS NO CHRIST, OR GOD THEY DON"T EXIST, with that said, I can not be on the side for or against that which does not exist.

I am against the lie perpetrated by christians, so I guess you could say I'm against christians if you like, but only those like yourself who continue to berate us with their imagination. Please stop.

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