Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 06-02-2006, 05:31 AM

Does anyone put forward a founder of rabbinic judaism? It can be understood as a solution to a problem - how can we worship without a temple or if we are not near the temple. Why not see xianity in the same light, we need a messiah, Ok, let's make one up!

No Robots · 06-02-2006, 07:57 AM

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Originally Posted by J-D

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with people saying what they think?

I am saying that there is something wrong in the way mythicists portray their opponents as unscientific fideists. This is akin to the way clerics treated their opponents as dangerous heretics.

Clivedurdle · 06-02-2006, 10:02 AM

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Originally Posted by No Robots

I am saying that there is something wrong in the way mythicists portray their opponents as unscientific fideists. This is akin to the way clerics treated their opponents as dangerous heretics.

Might that be due to the fact that the basic assumption - quoted a billion times a day - is hj?

If someone is hjist and atheist do they not have a duty to have very clear and cogent arguments - not dependent on apologia? It ain't a neutral matter!

And which model hj are they defending?

No Robots · 06-02-2006, 10:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Might that be due to the fact that the basic assumption - quoted a billion times a day - is hj?

If someone is hjist and atheist do they not have a duty to have very clear and cogent arguments - not dependent on apologia? It ain't a neutral matter!

And which model hj are they defending?

Mythicists, then, should be seen as providing an opportunity to HJers to really sharpen their arguments. So instead of trying to get MJers to buy into Brunner, I should market Brunner as the only real defense against MJ. I had thought about this approach before, but I need MJ to become more of a problem for the mainstream. Maybe Tabor's recent debacle marks the turning of the worm.

Clivedurdle · 06-02-2006, 10:27 AM

when will this server work?

Clivedurdle · 06-02-2006, 10:31 AM

Is Brunner a reaction to a Nietzchean (sp) superman?

Does not his jesus make more sense as a superhero? A theme in Batman is his dark side - why is he hiding his identity?

Taoism is an ancient approach to what is to be done about the interplay of good and evil - why not argue it is circular and interrelated?

I am reminded of a song - godspell, jc superstar (?), is he a man?

gods in druidic times were larger than life (might goliath have been a god?)

When I hear hero stories the presumption has to be - another god - imaginary hero, fiction.

No Robots · 06-02-2006, 10:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is Brunner a reaction to a Nietzchean (sp) superman?

Totally. Some of the stuff he has to say about Nietzsche is hilarious. His step-daughter wrote an essay contrasting them.

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Does not his jesus make more sense as a superhero?

That's his point, that Christ is the head of a kind of spiritual super-elite.

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A theme in Batman is his dark side - why is he hiding his identity?

Yeah. I love the way Brunner deals with Christ's dark side, his anger and hate.

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Taoism is an ancient approach to what is to be done about the interplay of good and evil - why not argue it is circular and interrelated?

Yup. This is quite explicit in Brunner's work.

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I am reminded of a song - godspell, jc superstar (?), is he a man?

Yeah, but what a man!

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When I hear hero stories the presumption has to be - another god - imaginary hero, fiction.

Brunner was writing for our time, a time when we've come to sicken of our own imagination.

Amaleq13 · 06-02-2006, 11:13 AM

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Originally Posted by J-D

If you posit this as a model for explaining the origin of Christianity, you still have to explain the prior existence of a group of which these people were members, and which shared an emotionally charged setting.

What else is needed to explain the existence of a group of like-minded individuals reconsidering traditional messianic expectations besides recognizing that this activity was apparently quite common at the time?

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Do you know of any instances of a religious movement starting in this way?

It would seem to fit the group that produced the reinterpretation of traditional messianic expectations found in the DSS but I think it is a red herring to suggest that other examples are needed when there is apparently nothing unreasonable or unlikely about the suggestion I've offered.

J-D · 06-03-2006, 03:09 AM

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