Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Brian_iiiii · 10-24-2003, 09:28 AM

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Though secular science books teach that a first living cell evolved from chemicals, the idea is not science, but an opinion about ancient history.
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Although biologists have convincing evidence to support the theory of evolution, that evidence does not support any theories on how the cells came about in the first place. Here we are on much shakier scientific ground.

I suspect this is a puzzle we will crack some day, but I think there's some validity to the statement above. "Primordial Soup" is more of an educated guess than a theory at this point.

Brian_iiiii · 10-24-2003, 09:31 AM

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Why shouldn't kids be expected to treat others like dirt if we teach them that they were formed from dirt?
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bzzzzzzt! Appeal to Consequences of a belief.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...sequences.html

Non-praying Mantis · 10-24-2003, 09:43 AM

No evolution for you! NEXT!!!

GunnerJ · 10-24-2003, 09:43 AM

Of course it was a slippery slope argument, Brian. Just like the one that starts off the page linked to in the OP. Think about it a while.

Enigma · 10-24-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallo
Why shouldn't kids be expected to treat others like dirt if we teach them that they were formed from dirt?

You make an excellent point. As per your suggestion, we should ban teaching of the Genesis account of creation (Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground..... )

Thank you for your patronage.

Mageth · 10-24-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallo
Why shouldn't kids be expected to treat others like dirt if we teach them that they were formed from dirt?

But he formed Eve out of Adam's rib (at least in one account). So strike up the fire, kids, we're having a Barbie-cue!

Joe V. · 10-24-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gallo
Why shouldn't kids be expected to treat others like dirt if we teach them that they were formed from dirt?

Why shouldn't kids be expected to act as sinners if we teach them that they were born as sinners?

- Joe

Coragyps · 10-24-2003, 01:32 PM

Quote:

"Lipids are only formed by living cells." Is this true?

I'm not sure, but fatty acids, which make up 80%+ of the mass of lipids, are made by keeping damp basalt around your in geologic column. (Reference this evening, if I can find it at home.)
And we have pretty good evidence that they also can form in a vacuum, 'cause Mr Chick certainly doesn't have many neurons inside his fat cranium.

Dr.GH · 10-24-2003, 01:52 PM

Here are a few references to abiogenic lipids:

1. Hargreaves, W. R., and Deamer, D. W. 1978. Liposomes from ionic single-chain amphiphiles. Biochemistry 17:3759-3768.

2. Deamer, D. W. 1985. Boundary structures are formed by organic components of the Murchison carbonaceous chondrite. Nature 317:792-794.

3. Deamer, D. W., and Pashley, R. M. 1989. Amphiphilic components of carbonaceous meteorites. Orig. Life Evol. Biosphere 19:21-33.

Coragyps · 10-24-2003, 04:03 PM

Reference as promised - Freund, et al., PNAS, vol 98, pp 2142-47 (2001).

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10-24-2003, 09:28 AM	#11
Brian_iiiii Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: U.S.A Posts: 63	============================================ Though secular science books teach that a first living cell evolved from chemicals, the idea is not science, but an opinion about ancient history. ============================================= Although biologists have convincing evidence to support the theory of evolution, that evidence does not support any theories on how the cells came about in the first place. Here we are on much shakier scientific ground. I suspect this is a puzzle we will crack some day, but I think there's some validity to the statement above. "Primordial Soup" is more of an educated guess than a theory at this point.

10-24-2003, 09:31 AM	#12
Brian_iiiii Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: U.S.A Posts: 63	============================================ Why shouldn't kids be expected to treat others like dirt if we teach them that they were formed from dirt? ============================================ bzzzzzzt! Appeal to Consequences of a belief. http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...sequences.html

10-24-2003, 09:43 AM	#13
Non-praying Mantis Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Roanoke, VA, USA Posts: 2,646	No evolution for you! NEXT!!!

10-24-2003, 09:43 AM	#14
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	Of course it was a slippery slope argument, Brian. Just like the one that starts off the page linked to in the OP. Think about it a while.

10-24-2003, 01:52 PM	#19
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	Here are a few references to abiogenic lipids: 1. Hargreaves, W. R., and Deamer, D. W. 1978. Liposomes from ionic single-chain amphiphiles. Biochemistry 17:3759-3768. 2. Deamer, D. W. 1985. Boundary structures are formed by organic components of the Murchison carbonaceous chondrite. Nature 317:792-794. 3. Deamer, D. W., and Pashley, R. M. 1989. Amphiphilic components of carbonaceous meteorites. Orig. Life Evol. Biosphere 19:21-33.

10-24-2003, 04:03 PM	#20
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Reference as promised - Freund, et al., PNAS, vol 98, pp 2142-47 (2001).

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