kcdad

Yeah? It also says a young man was sitting in the tomb. Was a young man sitting in the tomb, just hanging around waiting for someone to show up?

Certainly you don't believe EVERYTHING you read?

kcdad

Have you ever studied the parables? They are meant to create discussion and challenge people to think. Many people refuse to, Jesus realized that. They want their stories to be simple.

Do you think Homer wrote his great epics to be simple heroic stories? They are morality plays using the gods and man to teach. All good stories teach. Even Dr Seuss worked in deeper meaning into his stories, although many probably missed that too.

aa5874

Aren't you just wasting time with your fallacies and illogical statements?

Based on your own fallacy, you cannot prove that I cannot prove a negative.

As I have pointed out before whenever a person proposes A someone may propose NOT A.

Each proposition A AND NOT A must be supported by credible sources.

aa5874

Just tell me what happened then.

If I tell you that Homer's Achilles was the offspring of sea-goddess, do I have to first believe Homer?

No, I don't.

It must be obvious that I can show you what is in the NT or any other writing of antiquity without regarding the information as historical.

aa5874

But, it is recorded why Jesus spoke in parables to the multitudes. I don't have to guess. It is right there in the NT.

Let us read Matthew 13.10-15

Based on the NT, Jesus spoke in parables to the multitude of Jews so that they would not understand him, and would not be converted or healed.

It is right there in the NT.

You may not believe it, but you are not allowed to make stuff up, just like you can't make stuff up about Homer's Achilles. You must describe Homer's Achilles exactly like Homer and you must describe Mark's Jesus exactly like the author of Mark.

I don't want to hear anything about what you imagine Jesus said.

storytime

"To those who ask why God did not so create all men", one need only look to the writers who created their God in their image and likeness of how they desired their God to be -- a servant to them alone.

"Reason" attributed to the buy-Bull God has a distinct Hebrew/Jewish ring that served the militant, angry, hatefilled men of those generations in that form of godliness they chose to serve them at their table of hate.

aa5874

Mark 15.9 clearly shows that Jesus was not considered a destabilising influence, and that it was only for ENVY that he was brought before Pilate.

In effect, the accusations of being a destabilising influence were FALSE.


But, you have not even begin to establish that the crazy FUKE did even live. Where did you get your crazy FUKE story from?

And who worships you crazy Fuke as a God?


So, who worships Applewhite as a God after he failed to resurrect and claimed falsely claimed he did resurrect when his rotting body was found?

It must be obvious that Applewhite is a perfect example of how the Jesus story should have ended once he was human.

The HJ is rational if he was described in the NT as a mad-man who died for his stupidity.


You make your own bogus arguments and flush them. There is no argument here that the HJ is impossible.

So are you claiming that evidence or information provived by crazy people should be accepted? It must be logical that the mental state of the people involved is relevant.

Based on Applewhite and the Heaven's Gate cult failed resurrection prophecy where their bodies were found rotting after mass suicide, the Jesus story is SENSELESS if Jesus was human.


It is hardly likely that the disciples who ran away, went into hiding and LIED that they ever knew Jesus did ask any Jew ,in the 1st century before the Fall of the Temple, to worship Jesus as a God and to abandon the Laws of the God of Moses including circumcision when the disciples themselves could not account for the missing body of Jesus.


How absurd can you be? It is the nature of Jesus that is relevant to the discussion.

Homer's Achilles, the offspring of a sea-goddess, was physically present in the Trojan War.

Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost of God, did resurrect according to the NT.

Based on the NT and the Church writings, the HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

No Robots

For a debunking of the notion that the Jews as a whole are elect, see Chapter 3 of Spinoza’s Theology-Political Treatise, in which he states:

At the present time, therefore, there is absolutely nothing which the Jews can arrogate to themselves beyond other people.

As for the doctrine that certain individuals have by nature a better grasp of spiritual truth than others, this is hardly unique to Jews:

When a superior man hears of the Tao,
he immediately begins to embody it.
When an average man hears of the Tao,
he half believes it, half doubts it.
When a foolish man hears of the Tao,
he laughs out loud.
If he didn't laugh,
it wouldn't be the Tao.

--Tao te Ching

David_M

I am only going to continue adressing claims you make that are even vaguely related to data rather than your repeated regurgitations of your original argument.

This is just more evasiveness, you are clinging to 1 word to try and refute multiple references in the NT about the relationship between Jesus and the Jewish religious authorities of the time. And Envy does not preclude the power structure of those authorities being destabilised by a new teacher with a growing following.

The Gospels are littered with accusations the Jesus made against the scribes and pharisees. And they were the established Jewish religious power structure.

John 11:45-48
They saw Jesus as a threat to their established power. Jesus and his followers were a destablising influence on their own Jewish power base.


Any progress on providing sources that the disciples were "in hiding and shivering in fear"? Or are you going to try and ignore that one until pushed on it repeatedly?

Source please.

ONE disciple is recorded as denying Jesus THREE times in ONE night, thats it. There is no support for arguing that other disciples did. In fact the opposite is true, as I have already shown you, because it is written that 1 disciple who was KNOWN to the high priest went with Peter to the courtyard. The high priest knew who he was but he went to the high priest's residence, is that the action of someone in hiding. Or the disciple present at the crucifiction, were they in hiding?

They could account for the missing body and they did. They claimed it demonstrated that Jesus has indeed been ressurrected. To try and deny this is ridiculous as it forms part of the basis of the entire claim of the importance of Jesus to christians.


Why would I need to establish that, it was not your original question. "It's not real" is not a valid response from you.

Its from the link that I gave you earlier, apparently links that debunk your arguments are invisible.

No one does, but then he didn't claim to be a God AND THAT WAS NOT WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. That you even ask that question shows how desperate you are to move the goalposts.

More desparate attempts to move the Goalposts. Here is your original point.

Applewhite taught his followers exactly that. Now you have been given a real human who claimed he would be resurrected.

No its a perfect example of how the Jesus story would have ended if everyone claimed the body had remained in the tomb.

Because they didn't it is the meaning of the event that differs from Applewhite.

Thank you. You have admitted that your absolute contention that an HJ is senseless cannot be supported. Without and argument that an HJ is impossible he remains possible.

You cannot establish the mental state of any witness mentioned in the NT. They could just be lying because they want the ressurrection to be true, they could just believe it to be true strongly enough that circumstantial evidence or rumour convinces them or they could be hallucinating. Exactly which becomes irrelevant because it is the claim that was made and the claim that was recoreded that matters. In both cases the claim is that the body disappeared and therefore Jesus was no longer dead.

So you didn't actually read up on Applewhite did you? He said they would get new bodies so the old rotting bodies do not actually contradict what he predicted.

But this is again shifting the Goalposts. Applewhite claimed he would be ressurrected and his followers BELIEVED HIM. They believed so strongly that 38 of them committed suicide so they could go with him.

That is PROOF that real humans do make claims of resurrection and that real humans do believe these claims.

aa5874

I have told you already that the accusations against Jesus were, in effect, false once Pilate claimed he found no fault with Jesus.

Look at the words of Pilate in John 18.38, Mr 14:50 - Mt 26:56 - John 20:19 - Mark 16:8 -
Are you blatantly denying that Peter hid the truth when he claimed he was not a disciple of Jesus?

And based on the NT, Peter followed Jesus from "afar off" and was among the servants not the high priest. It was the maids who asked Peter if he was a follower Jesus.

Please see John 14. 54-72

But, that is not what is found in the NT.

Your information is bogus. IT was not the missing body that demonstrated his resurrection, since it could be that the body was stolen or no body was ever in the tomb, or they were at the wrong tomb.

The Gospels clearly state, and it is recorded, that they SAW Jesus alive on the third day and ate fish with him. Jesus showed them his scars and it was then that it was demonstrated that Jesus was resurrected.

Before Jesus appeared unto them AFTER the resurrection, the disciples were in hiding, trembling with fear. The Jews had BAD NEWS.

When did the disciples come out of hiding and tell the very Jews who were looking for them with BAD NEWS that that there was actually some GOOD NEWS?

Based on the NT and the Church writings, the HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition. The Jews only had BAD NEWS for the disciples if they can find them.