Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bill Joey · 05-31-2009, 03:53 PM

There is plenty of evidence in my booklet, in a dozen or so books written by many apologists, and throughout the world to fully prove the Bible and that the God of the Bible does indeed exist.

http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtE..._the_Bible.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

I cant post the entire list so we shall start with 1-2.

Evidence NO#48
Oldest Copy of John's Gospel

In 1956 the world learned of the existence of a copy of the Gospel of John that had been penned in Greek on papyrus sometime between AD 150-200.

This early copy has proved invaluable to Bible scholars and translators for helping to reconstruct the most accurate Greek text possible of the Gopspel of John.

Evidence NO#28
The Jerusalem Temple of Jesus' Day (Herod's Temple)

In 1968 excavations commenced in the area of the south retaining wall of the temple mt in Jerusalem.

This work has uncovered much of this part of the temple as it was in Jesus's day. It is unknown which entrance to the temple Mt Jesus & his disciples used in Mk 11, Mt 211, & John 2,5. Lk 1:9 mentions the priests custom of burning incense when he went into the Temple of the Lord.

This discovered is significant in that it provides yet more archaeological evidence that the Bible is true.

My resource has photographs of many of these discoveries to validate the Bible. None of these are available on the web. these are just 50, but there are many books that provide far more archaeological discoveries with photos to validate the Bible.

Bill

Would the discovery of an early manuscript of 'A Tale of
Two Cities', coupled with discovering that the book mentions real people and places in Paris, lead you to conclude that the book is a true story?

If not, why not?

David B

dimbulb · 05-31-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

I cant post the entire list so we shall start with 1-2.

Evidence NO#48
Oldest Copy of John's Gospel

In 1956 the world learned of the existence of a copy of the Gospel of John that had been penned in Greek on papyrus sometime between AD 150-200.

This early copy has proved invaluable to Bible scholars and translators for helping to reconstruct the most accurate Greek text possible of the Gopspel of John. l

How do you know it's a accurate copy if you don't have the original?
It could well be a copy of a copy of a copy.

Proves nothing.
l

Quote:

Evidence NO#28
The Jerusalem Temple of Jesus' Day (Herod's Temple)

In 1968 excavations commenced in the area of the south retaining wall of the temple mt in Jerusalem.

This work has uncovered much of this part of the temple as it was in Jesus's day. It is unknown which entrance to the temple Mt Jesus & his disciples used in Mk 11, Mt 211, & John 2,5. Lk 1:9 mentions the priests custom of burning incense when he went into the Temple of the Lord.

This discovered is significant in that it provides yet more archaeological evidence that the Bible is true.l

Huh? That a temple had an entrance? That priests burned incense. That's not proof of anything.

l

Quote:

My resource has photographs of many of these discoveries to validate the Bible. None of these are available on the web. these are just 50, but there are many books that provide far more archaeological discoveries with photos to validate the Bible.l

So the Bible accurately depicts some things that are verified by modern archaeology. So what?

Keep reaching.

ziffel · 05-31-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

There is plenty of evidence in my booklet, in a dozen or so books written by many apologists, and throughout the world to fully prove the Bible and that the God of the Bible does indeed exist.

http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtE..._the_Bible.htm

Josh McDowell! :rolling:

Martian Astronomer · 05-31-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

There is plenty of evidence in my booklet, in a dozen or so books written by many apologists, and throughout the world to fully prove the Bible and that the God of the Bible does indeed exist.

http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtE..._the_Bible.htm

Bill, you're about to get swarmed with hostile responses, so I thought I'd give you a friendly observation and some advice:

You're all over the place. I know you desperately want to prove that everything about the bible is true and that the KJV is the only true bible and that the earth is 6000 years old, but it's not going to work to argue it all at once.

My advice is to pick one or two of the best "evidences" that you're personally familiar with, and discuss them - without changing the subject! If you want to discuss archeology, that's fine. If you want to discuss the flood, that's fine. If you want to discuss the KJV, that's fine. If you try to argue about everything at once by linking to a bunch of websites, then that's not going to lead to productive discussion.

Bill Joey · 05-31-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smullyan-esque

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

Dude! It's been, like, 20 minutes since #9 got posted. Chill.

I am very overwhelmed and people expect me to answer posts in 2 seconds. I do have a life and do have to eat. I plan to address posts, but I cant address everything.

Johnny Skeptic · 05-31-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

I believe in a global flood and a young earth. I believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I have lots of evidence to show that a global flood did occur and that God does exist. Consider the following web sites.

Are you willing to debate the global flood, the age of the earth, and theistic evolution, in various threads at the Evolution/Creation forum?

Bill Joey · 05-31-2009, 04:03 PM

Very good point. In that event I should focus on the flood and archaeology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian Astronomer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

There is plenty of evidence in my booklet, in a dozen or so books written by many apologists, and throughout the world to fully prove the Bible and that the God of the Bible does indeed exist.

http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtE..._the_Bible.htm

Bill, you're about to get swarmed with hostile responses, so I thought I'd give you a friendly observation and some advice:

You're all over the place. I know you desperately want to prove that everything about the bible is true and that the KJV is the only true bible and that the earth is 6000 years old, but it's not going to work to argue it all at once.

My advice is to pick one or two of the best "evidences" that you're personally familiar with, and discuss them - without changing the subject! If you want to discuss archeology, that's fine. If you want to discuss the flood, that's fine. If you want to discuss the KJV, that's fine. If you try to argue about everything at once by linking to a bunch of websites, then that's not going to lead to productive discussion.

show_no_mercy · 05-31-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

There is plenty of evidence in my booklet, in a dozen or so books written by many apologists, and throughout the world to fully prove the Bible and that the God of the Bible does indeed exist.

http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtE..._the_Bible.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Would the discovery of an early manuscript of 'A Tale of
Two Cities', coupled with discovering that the book mentions real people and places in Paris, lead you to conclude that the book is a true story?

If not, why not?

David B

You didn't answer David B's question at all. How is it that the mention of places that exist in a book correlate with the existence of characters in that same book?

Your argument seems to be that because "x" physical place exists, therefore the events written in a book that has "x" physical place really happened.

Herod's Temple existed, therefore Jesus really did die and was bodily resurrected.

The Empire State Building exists, therefore Peter Parker really did get bitten by a radioactive spider and gained superpowers.

Troy exists, therefore Achilles really was invulnerable everywhere except for his heel.

The Sun exists, therefore Superman really did fly around the Earth really fast to reverse time and save Lois Lane.

Bill Joey · 05-31-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

I believe in a global flood and a young earth. I believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I have lots of evidence to show that a global flood did occur and that God does exist. Consider the following web sites.

Are you willing to debate the global flood, the age of the earth, and theistic evolution, in various threads at the Evolution/Creation forum?

Perhaps, but you need to give me more than 2 seconds to answer posts.

Emil · 05-31-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

In 1956 the world learned of the existence of a copy of the Gospel of John that had been penned in Greek on papyrus sometime between AD 150-200.

This early copy has proved invaluable to Bible scholars and translators for helping to reconstruct the most accurate Greek text possible of the Gospel of John.

You are referring to the P52 fragment. How can one little fragment help to reconstruct the entire book of John?

The Gospel writers were anonymous. They wrote decades after the supposed facts. They rarely revealed who their sources were. The authors of Matthew, Mark, and Luke never claimed to have seen Jesus perform miracles. The book of John was written much too late to be of much value to Christians. It is well-known that Matthew and Luke borrowed a good deal from Mark.

Since John is easily the latest of the Gospels, you used a bad example.

Consider the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Although P52 is a Greek papyrus fragment, with no more than 112 legible letters, it must come from a substantial codex book; as it is written on both sides, with John 18:31–33 on one side and John 18:37–38 on the other. Most reference books list the probable date for this manuscript as c. 125, but the difficulty of estimating the date of a literary text based solely on paleographic evidence must allow potentially for a range that extends from before 100 to well into the second half of the second century. P52 is small, and although a plausible reconstruction can be attempted for most of the fourteen lines represented, nevertheless the proportion of the text of the Gospel of John for which it provides a direct witness is necessarily limited, so it is rarely cited in textual debate.

There are lots of contradictions in the Bible.

Do you believe that a global flood occurred, that the earth is young, and that the story of Adam and Eve is true? If so, I wish to inform you that a lot of evidence reasonably proves that a global flood did not occur, that the earth is old, and that if a God exists, theistic evolution is true.

Nitpick: I disthink that you want to claim that if god exists, then theistic evolution is true. Theistic evolution is that God helped evolution create the diversity of life. If a god exists, then non-theistic evolution is still true and theistic evolution false.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.