Originally Posted by yalla

Yes.
You. Just then.

Well yours is the first time I've seen it anyway.
And I must admit it's an intersting idea. So if you pursue the idea via some research and find some info I 'd be interested in seeing it.

Originally Posted by yalla

I'm currently reading Thomas Thompson's "The Messiah Myth" which has as its theme ..." the contemporary audience for whom the Old and New Testaments were written would naaturally have interpreted David and Jesus not as historical figures, but as metaphors embodying long-established messianic traditions" [from the blurb on the back of the book].
Thompson gives many numerous detailed examples of ancient texts from the immediate geographic region which illustrate motifs common to lots of these figures. Its an interesting read.
He does not claim that Dave and JC are direct plagiarisms, more that the motifs themes and literary material are all readily available by cultural osmosis. They are 'in the water' sort of.
So tying that idea with a comet flashing through the sky at a propitious time could lead us to suggest....
Well, all sorts of things. Possibilities.

Originally Posted by David M. Payne

I can't remember his name, but I know he was talking second hand about Jesus as he was around a fair amount of time after Jesus was susposed to live and die.

David

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Has anyone proposed that Halley's comet, the destruction of Jerusalem and the wondrous religio political context led to the birth of xianity?

Originally Posted by DCHindley

The four, yes a total of four, historical references to Jesus from just three non-Christian sources within 100 years of his reputed time are as follows:
...

Originally Posted by spamandham

What about the "James the brother of Jesus, called Christ" reference also in Josephus?

Originally Posted by spamandham

Not that I'm aware of, but I have seen it argued that the fall of the temple was the spark that lit Christianity.

I've speculated here that the gospel story was set exactly 1 generation prior to the fall for symbolic propaganda reasons rather than historical reasons. I think the Jesus in the gospels might be a metaphor for the Jewish people. His death and resurrection symbolize a new Judaism (Christianity) arising from the crucifixion (humiliating defeat) of the old Judaism....all speculation mind you.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Having just reviewed all of the threads that Toto referenced above, I recalled something that I had read long ago, that seems to me to have a certain bearing on this subject, although I've I have never seen it brought up anywhere before.
Perhaps because most never get around to reading or much discussion of the non-canonical books.

Originally Posted by 2 Maccabees

Beginning at 2 Maccabees 13:9

9. Now the king came with a barbarous and haughty mind to do far
worse to the Jews, than had been done in his father's time.
10. Which things when Judas perceived, he commanded the multitude
to call upon **** night and day, that if ever at any other
time, He would now also help them, being at the point to be put
from their law, from their country, and from the holy temple:
11. And that He would not suffer the people, that had even now
been but a little refreshed, to be in subjection to the
blasphemous nations.
12. So when they had all done this together, and besought the
merciful El with weeping and fasting, and lying flat upon the
ground three days long, Judas, having exhorted them, commanded
they should be in a readiness.
13. And Judas, being apart with the elders, determined, before
the king's host should enter into Judea, and get the city, to go
forth and try the matter in fight by "The HELP of ****."
14. So when he had committed all to the Creator of the world, and
exhorted his soldiers to fight manfully, even unto death, for
the laws, the temple, the city, the country, and the commonwealth, he camped by Modin:
15. And having given "The WATCHWORD" to them that were about him; "VICTORY is of ***"; with the most valiant and choice young men he went in into the king's tent by night, and slew in the camp about four thousand men, and the chiefest of the elephants, with all that were upon him.

Originally Posted by 2 Maccabees 8

1. Then Judas Maccabeus, and they that were with him, went privily into the towns, and called their kinsfolks together, and took unto them all such as continued in the Jews' religion, and assembled about six thousand men.
2. And they called upon ****, that He would look upon the people that was trodden down of all; and also pity the temple profaned of ungodly men;
3. And that He would have compassion upon the city, sore defaced, and ready to be made even with the ground; and hear the blood that cried unto Him,
4. And remember the wicked slaughter of harmless infants, and the blasphemies committed against His Name; and that He would shew His hatred against the wicked.
5. Now when Maccabeus had his company about him, he could not be withstood by the heathen: for the wrath of **** was turned into mercy.
6. Therefore he came at unawares, and burnt up towns and cities, and got into his hands the most commodious places, and overcame and put to flight no small number of his enemies.
7. But specially took he advantage of the night for such privy attempts, insomuch that the fruit of his holiness was spread every where.
8. So when Philip saw that this man increased by little and little, and that things prospered with him still more and more, he wrote unto Ptolemeus, the governor of Celosyria and Phenice, to yield more aid to the king's affairs.
9. Then forthwith choosing Nicanor the son of Patroclus, one of his special friends, he sent him with no fewer than twenty thousand of all nations under him, to root out the whole generation of the Jews; and with him he joined also Gorgias a captain, who in matters of war had great experience.
10. So Nicanor undertook to make so much money of the captive Jews, as should defray the tribute of two thousand talents, which the king was to pay to the Romans.
11 Wherefore immediately he sent to the cities upon the sea coast, proclaiming a sale of the captive Jews, and promising that they should have fourscore and ten bodies for one talent, not expecting the vengeance that was to follow upon him from Almighty ****.
12. Now when word was brought unto Judas of Nicanor's coming, and he had imparted unto those that were with him that the army was at hand,
13. They that were fearful, and distrusted the justice of ****, fled, and conveyed themselves away.
14. Others sold all that they had left, and withal besought **** to deliver them, sold by the wicked Nicanor before they met together:
15. And if not for their own sakes, yet for the covenants He had made with their fathers, and for His holy and glorious Name's sake, by which they were called.
16. So Maccabeus called his men together unto the number of six thousand, and exhorted them not to be stricken with terror of the enemy, nor to fear the great multitude of the heathen, who came wrongly against them; but to fight manfully,
17. And to set before their eyes the injury that they had unjustly done to the Holy place, and the cruel handling of the city, whereof they made a mockery, and also the taking away of the government of their forefathers:
18. For they, said he, trust in their weapons and boldness; but our confidence is in the Almighty who at a beck can cast down both them that come against us, and also all the world.
19. Moreover, he recounted unto them what help their forefathers had found, and how they were delivered, when under Sennacherib an hundred fourscore and five thousand perished.
20. And he told them of the battle that they had in Babylon with the Galatians, how they came but eight thousand in all to the business, with four thousand Macedonians, and that the Macedonians being perplexed, the eight thousand destroyed an hundred and twenty thousand because of the help that they had from heaven, and so received a great booty.
21. Thus when he had made them bold with these words, and ready to die for the law and the country, he divided his army into four parts;
22. And joined with himself his own brethren, leaders of each band, to wit Simon, and Joseph, and Jonathan, giving each one fifteen hundred men.
23. Also he appointed Eleazar to read the Holy Book: and when he had given them this "watchword", "the HELP of ****"; himself leading the first band,
24. And by "The HELP of ****" they slew above nine thousand of their enemies, and wounded and maimed the most part of Nicanor's host, and so put all to flight;
25. And took their money that came to buy them, and pursued them far: but lacking time they returned:
26. For it was the day before the sabbath, and therefore they would no longer pursue them.
27. So when they had gathered their armour together, and spoiled their enemies, they occupied themselves about the sabbath, yielding exceeding praise and thanks to ****, who had preserved them unto that day, which was the beginning of mercy distilling upon them.
28. And after the sabbath, when they had given part of the spoils to the maimed, and the widows, and orphans, the residue they divided among themselves and their servants.
29. When this was done, and they had made a common supplication, they besought the merciful El to be reconciled with his servants for ever.
30. Moreover of those that were with Timotheus and Bacchides, who fought against them, they slew above twenty thousand, and very easily got high and strong holds, and divided among themselves many spoils more, and made the maimed, orphans, widows, yea, and the aged also, equal in spoils with themselves.
31. And when they had gathered their armour together, they laid them up all carefully in convenient places, and the remnant of the spoils they brought to Jerusalem.
32. They slew also Philarches, that wicked person, who was with Timotheus, and had annoyed the Jews many ways.
33. Furthermore at such time as they kept the feast for the "victory" in their country they burnt Callisthenes, that had set fire upon the holy gates, who had fled into a little house; and so he received a reward meet for his wickedness.
34. As for that most ungracious Nicanor, who had brought a thousand merchants to buy the Jews,
35. He was through the "HELP of ****" brought down by them, of whom he made least account; and putting off his glorious apparel, and discharging his company, he came like a fugitive servant through the midland unto Antioch having very great dishonour, for that his host was destroyed.
36. Thus he, that took upon him to make good to the Romans their tribute by means of captives in Jerusalem, told abroad, that the Jews had Elohim to fight for them, and therefore they could not be hurt, because they followed the laws that He gave them.