outhouse

"What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings on the earth collect tolls or tributes? From their own subjects, or from foreigners?" When he said, "From foreigners," Jesus said to him, "In that case, the subjects are exempt." -Matthew 17:25-27

Solo

What are saying ? Chesterton was not defending Christian orthodoxy ?

Best,
Jiri

Toto

But all these charges were false.

Jesus never deals pays. Jesus never eats anything himself. The gospel Jesus is an insubstantial character.

He claimed to be a Roman citizen, but that didn't make him Roman. He claimed to be a Pharisee and Jewish, but we all think we was lying.



You misread the gospels. Jesus was not killed for money, but for ideology and theological drama.

You can't just keep saying cross cultural.

sotto voce

'After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?"

"Yes, he does," he replied.'

So Jesus paid the Temple tax.

'When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. "What do you think, Simon?" he asked. "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes — from their own sons or from others?"'

So Jesus showed that he knew what had just occurred.

'"From others," Peter answered. "Then the sons are exempt," Jesus said to him.'

So Jesus said that he was God. He was the one worshipped in the Temple, the presence in the Holy of Holies. And his 'priests', like him, had no duty to pay Temple tax. But...

'"But so that we may not offend them,"'

Of course the Jews were unaware of Jesus' divinity, or were aware but unwilling to admit it.

'"go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours."'

So Peter the fisherman went fishing, not for his own keep, but the keep of the Temple. As he walked back, the coin in his hand, he held miraculous proof in it that Jesus was God.

sotto voce

If papism is orthodoxy, one dries clothes in water. If papism is orthodoxy, the sun comes out at night.

Toto

sotto voce has a unique definition of True Christianity^TM. No one can live up to it, not even Jesus.

outhouse

lets post something without YOUR personal addition of "he paid" because he never paid.


17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?


here he is question because he didnt pay at some point


17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? (17:27) "Go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee." Jesus tells Peter to pay his taxes with a coin that he'll find in the mouth of the first fish that he catches from the sea.
17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.


here jesus states his children are free and should not pay

17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


here jesus sends peter fishing BUT DOES NOT PAY and definately does not pull out a coin purse and pay as required.


and peter never does return with money to pay



you should do a little research and find out where the money in the fishes mouth comes from

outhouse

how so?

he is said to have preached to ALL tax collectors. this is perverting the nation, trying to stop tax collectors from gaining Caesars money. he even is said to have got ole Zacc to give tax money back to people.


He is questioned for not paying taxes shortly before he goes to the temple, he is questioned about poll tax by the way. He tips over money tables because he doesnt have money to change for temple taxes starting a riot.

thus he didnt pay taxes there either


the only bogus charge was that he claimed to be king, which jesus states is not of this world [talking about heaven]



yes people writing 30 years later didnt know what he had for dinner. I really hope you have better then that because that is a epic fail.

Jesus is a very human charactor and died a human death on a cross

didnt pay taxes like a poverty stricken broke jew

and speaked alot of money like a person would.

you know how the IRS will mess up a deities day tilling for souls to save!


Pauls jewishness is up for debate and rightfully so.

he wanted to be a real apostle so bad that he would lie to identify himself with the original movement


I have the advantage of in depth study with this and in part responsible for some of wiki on this subject after fighting with dustin over this who claims paul was only a jew.

not many scholars would claim he was not a citizen as he could not have had a trial, allthough Crossan n Borg states he wouldnt have been whipped had he been a citizen. but they dont come out and state for sure he wasnt. They question it only.

yes Act's is the main source but not the only source as paul has very hellenistic traits




to hell he wasnt.


you tip the bank tellers tables over on passover when tensions were high, you would be put on a cross without a trial just the way he died.

he died because he was ticked off and tipped money tables over. thats mad over money

YOU just dont like it because its a human trait, and you cant refute it.


sure I can., its a fact


the movement started strickly in judaism, jesus was a jew, and so were ALL his real apostles.


the movement was stolen by paul after he put a stop to the real apostles after 3 years of hunting a small sect of jews, then takes his roman version to the roman/gentiles.


how is it not cross cultural theology.?????????????????????????????????????

spin

You love making bald assertions, especially ones that don't really relate to what you think you are responding to.

As I said:

1. you have no evidence to indicate Jesus preceded Paul.

2. Paul specifically states he got his gospel not from other people but from revelation

If you want to supply a rebuttal try to talk about the topic.

You are just plain confused here. Apostles are people who go around spreading the word. There is nothing to ignore about that fact. They are real. So what the fuck did they believe? You are clueless on the matter. You can't even concentrate on the subject. Demonstrate your claim that there was a Jesus belief before Paul, or accept the fact that you are a duffer.

Conclusion based on assertion. You just haven't got a clue what you are supposed to be doing here.

You generally have difficulty spelling anything. You plainly don't know what minimalism actually is, otherwise you might take a leaf or two out of Thompson's book on "The Mythic Past" and cut back on the fluent assertions.

You don't know how much of the gospel is "errant" and you have no way of gauging the matter. That is your problem, the historicist's problem and the mythicist's problem. They all lack the tools to divine the sorts of information they want. For me you're no different from a myther because you make the same mistakes.

outhouse

False

paul states quite clearly he knew the original apostles who followed jesus

the gospels place jesus before paul

that is evidence, despite your untrained personal opinion.


yes he got his theology from a revelation of jesus, a man paul states existed and had real apostles.


yet he hunted this group for years prior to his revelation and through your blatant ignorance, fail to realize he might have learned about the people he hunted down and persecuted.



please stop embarrassing yourself





are you not as sharp as I thought? unless you can show how a common criminal like paul who spends alot of time in jail is the soul creator of a religion that lasted 2000 years, you fail.




and your no better, who do you think you are?


The OT is more my specialty, so stop with the ignorance. You embarrass yourself

im weak with jesus but you sure dont show me anything at all.