Amaleq13

In this context, it means "Edited To Add", I believe.

Photon

ETA = "edited to add", in this context.

For example,

ETA: Crap, beat me by seconds!

andrewcriddle

As already mentioned the oldest portion of the Talmud the Mishnah was codified c 200 CE. The Babylonian Talmud was finally codified about 600 CE.

The passage which I suspect is in question here is from Tractate Sanhedrin This is introduced as a baraitha which means it is alleged to go back to the Tannaitic period the period of the Mishnah ie before 200 CE.

However it serves in context as a basis for remarks attributed to Rabbi 'Ulla who lived about 300 CE and the passage may well in reality date from around then.

Andrew Criddle

Diogenes the Cynic

A note about Josephus inre: John the Baptist.

He does mention JBap but he says he died about 36 CE, which would contradict the Gospels' account that he died before Jesus.

andrewcriddle

Josephus claims that the military defeat of Herod around 36 CE was thought to be God's judgment for Herod executing John the Baptist.

This is quite compatible with a death of John some years before.

Andrew Criddle

Diogenes the Cynic

1. Josephus also places the execution of John the Baptizer after the death of Antipas' brother. Philip, who died in 34 CE.

2. Why should a date of "some years before" be preferred to a date of immediately before?

andrewcriddle

The account by Josephus of John the Baptist certainly occurs after the account of the death of Philip 34 (and the deposing of Pilate 36 etc.)

The problem is that the account is clearly back story explaining who on earth was the Johh the Baptist for whose killing Herod was regarded as punished by God c 36 CE.

In theory John could have been killed decades before, although if the killing was very long ago it is unlikely that the two events would have been linked in the popular mind. However, it is quite plausible that two events up to 10 years apart would have been linked in this way.

I'm not saying that a date of some years before should be preferred to one immediately before on the basis of what Josephus tells us, I'm saying that Josephus on his own gives no basis for determining how long before his defeat in 36 Herod had had John killed.

Andrew Criddle

Steven Carr

I thought John was killed for criticising a marriage that Josephus seems to imply took place in 36 AD (or 33 AD, depending upon my memory)

From the Amazon review of Robin Lane Fox 'The Unathorised Version'
'His argument is that since Jesus died after John the Baptist and John the Baptist, according to Mark, was executed for opposing Herod Antipas' marriage to his half-brother's widow, that marriage must have taken place no earlier than 34, when the half-brother died. The problem with this argument is that a) Mark gets the half-brother wrong b) Josephus doesn't say John the Baptist's execution had anything to do with Antipas' marriage.'

andrewcriddle

Mark does indeed seem to get the half-brother wrong.

From Josephus

Herodias was originally married to Herod son of Herod the Great by Mariamme II. They had a daughter Salome. Herodias then married Herod Antipas son of Herod the Great by Malthace, while Salome married Philip son of Herod the Great by Cleopatra (not the Cleopatra).

Hence the death of Philip in 34 CE is irrelevant to the issue, since Herodias was never married to him..

(The above may be found confusing. Apparently Mark found it confusing too.)

Andrew Criddle

TruthCounsellor

That appears to support the belief of some that he was crucified on Wednesday (before Passover), and not on Friday (as traditionally taught.)

TC