Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Al Kafirun · 05-11-2004, 07:45 PM

The killing of man and animal that touches God's mountain... seemed a bit harsh.

Tristan Scott · 05-11-2004, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosor

After liquidating the opposition Moses then has the power to impose his laws, i.e. the ten commandments. Fortunately the laws were generally seen to be just so it was accepted by the majority after much physical coercion.

Moses then puts his family, the levites, as rulers over the other tribes. They become the priests who wield great power and influence. Over the ages they inevitably become corrupt, looking only to maintian their own power and authority.

I'm not very knowledgeble in biblical scholarship but I found his arguement very powerful and convincing. However, I don't think my overview does it the least bit of justice. What does everyone else think?

I think this was discussed in another thread a year or two ago. There is a possibility that Moses was actually a descendant from the semitic people who lived in Egypt and it is entirely possible that the Hebrew religion was actually fashioned or at least influenced by these people. These people were called the Hyksos and I believed they even ruled the lower Nile during the Middle kingdom sometime.

Since there is no archaeological evidence of Moses to back up the Pentateuch or Josephus, it leaves it open that Moses could have been anyone. Some even speculate that Moses was actually Akhenaten. A Pharaoh who worshipped the god Aten with a hymn that is very similar to one of the Psalms. Akhenaten was banished from Egypt and, like Moses went into the Sinai with his followers.

Vinnie · 05-11-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Even in the bible it states the israelites witnessed God's miracles but continued to fall into disblief. How unlikely is that? If you witnessed a burning pillar of fire or mana from heaven or the parting of a sea, would you suddenly stop worshiping God? I wouldn't.

This is a statistical error. The Israelites are said to have numbered in the millions. If the Bible has 50 miracles over a 100 year period, how prominent are these miracles in relation to the population that can "fall away from the official religion"?

Would the average person have even seen such a miracle?

Vinnie

Amaleq13 · 05-12-2004, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Would the average person have even seen such a miracle?

Wouldn't they all have seen the pillars of smoke and fire that lead the way?

At the very least, they all would have seen the parted waters as they escaped the Egyptians.

shunyadragon · 05-12-2004, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Scott

I think this was discussed in another thread a year or two ago. There is a possibility that Moses was actually a descendant from the semitic people who lived in Egypt and it is entirely possible that the Hebrew religion was actually fashioned or at least influenced by these people. These people were called the Hyksos and I believed they even ruled the lower Nile during the Middle kingdom sometime.

Since there is no archaeological evidence of Moses to back up the Pentateuch or Josephus, it leaves it open that Moses could have been anyone. Some even speculate that Moses was actually Akhenaten. A Pharaoh who worshipped the god Aten with a hymn that is very similar to one of the Psalms. Akhenaten was banished from Egypt and, like Moses went into the Sinai with his followers.

The second is the more likely story or another rebelious Egyptian prince avoiding being eliminated by competotion for the throne.

Magdlyn · 05-23-2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Wouldn't they all have seen the pillars of smoke and fire that lead the way?
.

That was just a brazier of coals. Looked like smoke in daylight, fire at night. Appropriate that a brazier of coals would be used a a symbol of YHWH, a volcano god.

dado · 05-23-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosor

I'm not very knowledgeble in biblical scholarship but I found his arguement very powerful and convincing.

brutal is a relative term. in the US mentally retarded individuals are now being executed. in Jewish tradition Moshe is viewed like all the other important figures: a great - but morally flawed - leader, and whether or not he actually existed is generally considered secondary to the story itself.

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05-11-2004, 07:45 PM	#11
Al Kafirun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: USA Posts: 323	The killing of man and animal that touches God's mountain... seemed a bit harsh.

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