sschlichter

That is interesting! Do you beleive in the tall skinny ones, like in Close Encounters or more like the ET type short ones. Since ET came to this planet, revealed himself to a small few, healed, performed miracles, died, resurrected, and ascended then I think we have more in common than I would have expected.

Before last month who would have known there was a plausible reason for unicorns. What else? Perhaps there is also a plausible reason for a loving personal Creator. (and this is still the best explanation for the skunk).

Amaleq13

You want this thread moved again? It appears to be heading in a decidedly E/C direction.


Amaleq13, BC&H moderator

elevator

Wow, this discussion derailed completely in a few hours here. Eventually we should be able to get it back into biblical criticism. The point I was trying to make is that your assertion that a non-religious displays faith (or faith in denial as you call it) when he rejects supernatural claims is incorrect. Faith is displayed by the believer of a particular religious or supernatural claim for which there is no available evidence. This was what I was trying to illustrate with the invisible dragon analogy. "Faith in supernatural claim X" doesn't have a "Faith in the denial of supernatural claim X"-counterpart. Faith is about accepting something on insufficient evidence. There is no faith needed to reject something that has not been proven to begin with!

And I agree with George Hathaway's reply (about the dragon crap). You are quite correct that a garage full of dragon crap would be evidence for the existence of a dragon. But do we have such evidence when it comes to religion? What would you in so case imagine this evidence to be? What would be your Christian "dragon-crap"? There is nothing magical about being an agnostic. There is nothing supernatural about agnostic choices. All an agnostic asserts is that claims of this kind are either 1. inherently unknowable or, 2. based on available evidence, currently unknown. This has nothing to do with faith, the supernatural or magic in any way, form or fashion.

sschlichter

I disagree. I think the last few posts of this thread are indicative of the fact that you do need something to account for the world around you. There is no argument of nothing. There is a primary mover and if you allow yourselves to insist it is not God then you are perfectly willing to put aliens, and magic amoebas in his place.

George S

There is no evidence for earth having been visited by extraterrestrials. Extraterrestrial seeding only requires that some cell-spore traveled interstellar distances.

The evidence belies a "loving" creator. Nature lavishes its love mostly on bacteria.

elevator

There is no evidence for either of the examples you gave. Do we have evidence God exists? No. Do we have evidence aliens exist? No. Do we have evidence magic amoebas exist? No. Then why pretend they do? Why do you imagine that believing something on insufficient evidence is necessary? I would equally demand evidence from someone who asserts that aliens exist or that magic amoebas exist as I would from you when you claim God exists. Have I given you the impression that I believe in aliens or magic amoebas, or are you extrapolating the opinions and beliefs of previous posters onto me and imagine me to share those beliefs? You don't believe in aliens I assume? Why not? You don't believe in the God of Islam I assume? Why not? The matrix of possible beliefs and possible truths are endless and so unless we have evidence to claim that a particular set of alleged truths are in fact true; there is really no reason to believe any of them, are there?

sschlichter

Do you beleive there is life on this planet?

sschlichter

just zoom your microscope out a little.

Loving Creator thru 'Nature lavishes its love mostly on bacteria' to sustain life for man.

elevator

Of course I do and there is evidence that there is! I don't know where you are going with this. How is asserting the existence of something natural evidence of the existence of the supernatural?

sschlichter

Does the evidence tell you how it got here?