Apologist

The absense of evidence is not evidence of absense, and I am quoting The Boondocks.

Anat

Not so fast. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I am willing to accept that there was a Yeshua ben Yosef living in 1st century CE Palestine (there were probably several of them) and that he got crucified (not at all unlikely in those times, I understand). For claims about resurrection more evidence is required than what amounts to rumor at best, just like for claims for the ascention of various Roman rulers.

Apologist

Shroud of Turin. The image apparently wasn't painted on. There is no pigmentation or brushstrokes. The type of cloth used is the same as in first century palestine. The plant type is the same is in first century palestine. The image is three dimensional. "It would be a miracle were it a forgery."

Amaleq13

I should have suspected your source might be the Cartoon Network. :wave:

Anat

Oh yeah?
The plant evidence can't be pinned directly to the cloth, the weave is not known from the time, it is different from the weave used for burial cloths, there was supposed to be a separate cloth for the face (so even if the cloth is from the time despite radiocarbon evidence for the contrary it is unlikely to have been used for burial originally), there actually is evidence for pigments. As for the image, there are some problems with it:
and:

Why hasn't anyone heard of the supposed shroud before the late medieval times?

pharoah

I have no way of arguing against such a general claim, but we know for sure that the "supernatural" event that they saw was not a dancing sun. Have you really stopped to ponder this? The earth revolves around the sun, and the sun in turn revolves around the Milky Way.

Essentially you are claiming that the sun left it's orbit. There should have been profoundly negative consequences resulting from this. Astronomers and cosmologists the world over should have noted this. Yet none of this occurred. Why?

So here's what you're claiming:

God miraculously caused the sun to leave it's orbit.
God miraculously hid this from everyone on earth but Fatimans.
God miraculously spared the earth from all negative side effects.
God miraculously hid all evidence of this from astronomers of the time.
Since astonomy is able to detect past movements of stars, then He is still hiding all evidence.

skepticgirl

Sounds like miraculously saving one person in a car accident while the rest bleed to death.

Avatar

But abscence of evidence where there should be evidence goes a long, long way to suggesting absence. Such as a total lack of archaeological evidence of a mass migration from Egypt to Canaan.
False dichtonomy. There is actual physical evidence and multiple accounts of these events. Is there corroberating evidence beyond the Bible and Church tradition? Nope.

lpetrich

The Shroud of Turin
The Cloak of Kandahar
The Tooth of Kandy

Why believe in one of these but not the other two?

If the Shroud of Turin indicates that Xianity is the One True Religion, then the Cloak of Kandahar indicates that Islam is the One True Religion, and the Tooth of Kandy indicates that Buddhism is the One True Religion.


And I think that that Fatima Disco Sun was a side effect of staring at the Sun -- doing so produces a swirling effect due to the Sun's oversaturating the retina's light-detector cells.


Let's see what would happen if the Sun's direction changed by 1 radian per second (~ 57 degrees/s), which seems right for that Disco Sun.

If it was the Earth's wobbling that did it, its surface would wobble at about 6000 km/s, producing an acceleration of 6*10^5 times its surface acceleration of gravity. Meaning that it would require a BIG miracle to hold the Earth together.

If it was the Sun's motion that did it, it would have to move at 1.5*10^8 km/s -- 500 c (!) And a faster-than-light Sun would also be a BIG miracle.