judge

We don't know who wrote Johns gospel and we don't know when it was written.

Don't believe anyone who tells you anything else.

Chris Weimer

Say John is 27 (est. on the lower side) in 33 CE. John was written around 100 CE. That's 70 years right there. John would have been 97, unheard of.

Moreover, while the wealthy lived late 60's and 70's (with very few making it to 80's, although not too rare), the average peasant in Judaea probably lived much less, most likely placing it at 50's/60's instead of 60's/70's.

Alf

Keep in mind though that the named he listed was emperors and stuff - upper class people. Common people had a harder life and generally died earlier.

On the other hand, people who was literate enough to write down gospel stories was probably part of that upper class - at least high enough to learn to read and write so I guess chances are that they could live quite long. However, it is also evidence that they were not eye-witnesses or early disciples of Jesus as that was mostly illiterate fishermen and the like.

How long they could expect to live based on averages of the day - I have no idea.

Alf

S.C.Carlson

Perhaps, the more important statistic is how many from a group of 12-20 men aged 15-25 lived to be 80 years old. (I don't know the number, but it must more relevant than estimated average life expectancy.)

Stephen

Ben C Smith

Why is 27 a low side estimate?

Ben.

Chris Weimer

Ya figure Jesus is 30 when he is called, how much younger do you want him to be? Say he's 20, which seems dubious. An age of 90 is still unheard of, even more so for some peasant wandering the Judaean desert. It's not like he had a nice villa to which he could retire in Baiae.

mdarus

This is how Irenaeus put it together:
http://www.piney.com/FathIrenaHerII.html#P7038_1815738

mdarus

80? 90? No, not unheard of at all.

EVIDENCE FROM EPITAPHS
http://www.lamp.ac.uk/%7Enoy/death1.htm
Jewish inscriptions from Rome show the following ages at death:

Age
Number of cases

0-9 years
46

10-19 years
24

20-29 years
28

30-39 years
18

40-49 years
8

50-59 years
9

60-69 years
5

70-79 years
3

80-89 years
11

90+ years
2

total
154

That's 7.8% over 80 years old. The Gospel of John ends with indications that John lived to an astounding age. There was need to explain why he died before Jesus returned.

Johnny Skeptic

None of that reasonably proves who wrote the book of John, but then, does authorship really matter?

mdarus

I have no idea what "reasonable proof" would look like. It is unlikely that a "signed original document" would help since we would have no basis to evaluate the signature or determine whether said document was "original."

The study of authorship is never about "reasonable proof"; it is about looking at the information available and adopting the best theory.

Matter to whom? The skeptic may not care at all. Someone deciding whether the GJ has anything important to say about Jesus probably cares lot.

The issue of who wrote a book is more complex than the face of it. Some identify the author as the source of underlying oral tradition. Many consider the author as the last one to make significant changes that resulted in the earliest manuscript extant. It is an easier excersize to find indications of original the original source. It is impossible to identify the alleged redactors.

Those looking for information about Jesus in the GJ will get what they are looking for even if the gospel was not dicatated by John. Even if it is only a substantially accurate accout of John's sermons and recollections gathered by those who knew and heard John's accounts, it could still be authoritative and even inspired.