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02-28-2009, 02:54 PM | #71 | ||
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Much obliged. It seems that "gentile" (via Ἕλλην) is only in the NT and used sparingly, whereas the "gentile" (via "Ethnos) is used in the NT and OT relatively extensively. Quote:
Best wishes, Pete |
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02-28-2009, 03:15 PM | #72 | ||
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Where to begin? First of all, thank you Pete, for confronting so many naysayers, armed with only a modicum of knowledge of ancient Greek and Hebrew. I think your contributions represent one of the three or four most useful contributions to this forum (along with Shesh!), and I hope you don't let Jeffrey's irrelevant criticisms dissuade you. Secondly, as far as learning is concerned, if I were instructed, by some alien force, to wave my magic wand, and remove ONLY ONE person's listings, from the forum, with the proviso that, loss of those submissions in toto (no pun intended) ought to represent those which the forum would least miss, then, notwithstanding his obvious erudition, Jeffrey's carping would be included among a small handful of candidates for removal. Thirdly, the questions posed by Pete are candid, forthright, honest, and often, profound, notwithstanding a paucity of veneer afforded those who encapsulate their questions with proper Hebrew or Greek, as appropriate to the circumstance. Yes, Pete errs, even often, as we all do, but, unlike many of us, Pete owns up to his mistakes, while most of us attempt to conceal our errors, by blaming others, claiming misunderstanding, or misinterpretation, or even malicious intent. I am writing as the LEAST well educated of the newcomers to the forum, therefore, my own approval of Pete's efforts is potentially flawed, since my own knowledge is so minuscule, accordingly, my judgement is also suspect. I wish that Jeffrey would redirect his obvious brilliance to focus on helping those, like Pete, who lack Jeffrey's training, education, and culture. I would profit from reading some idea of Jeffrey's which revealed how he can translate his great wisdom into a meaningful discussion of any topic of interest to him, as Pete has done so successfully, despite not possessing Jeffrey's foreign language expertise. |
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02-28-2009, 03:23 PM | #73 | |
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I am not suggesting (by the super-global-replacement exercises) that all references to "gentiles" in the NT may be direct references to "Hellenes" but I was suggesting that there is far more than just a casual association, and the results (above post) seem to confirm this. Is this a reasonable conclusion? And secondly, it is notable that the term (gentile = Hellene) is not used in these 6 NT references without in each and every case a close juxtaposition and contrast with the "nation of Jews". In other words, the Hellenes are presented by the authors of the NT as "nations" explicitly (in these 6 refs) only in combined instances where the Jews are also presented as a nation alongside the Hellenes, and where the Jews are always placed before the Hellenes (ie: mentioned first). Is this also, a reasonable observation? |
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02-28-2009, 03:53 PM | #74 | |
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The word "nations" has a very different meaning today from what it meant in the first century. |
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02-28-2009, 05:12 PM | #75 | |||
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The same may well be said of the word "Hellenes". Momigliano writes: Quote:
This may be a bit much but here goes anyway ... Does the New Testament reveal political overtones? To what extent can the new testament be considered a political manifesto against the Hellenes, using the Jews (and the LXX) as a springboard, written in advance of the 4th century political "conversion" of the Hellenistic eastern empire to "christianity"? |
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02-28-2009, 06:01 PM | #76 | |
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[quote=avi;5826900]
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Jeffrey |
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02-28-2009, 06:07 PM | #77 |
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02-28-2009, 06:56 PM | #78 | |
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Thanks. But I made a mistake when I wrote that, which allows for ambiguity. What I should have stated was this: Much obliged. Within the text of the New Testament it seems thatSorry for the ambiguity. Best wishes, Pete |
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02-28-2009, 07:22 PM | #79 |
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Post #47 in this thread was good enough for me, but then I really have no interest in making him grovel, wring his hands, and kiss my shoes.
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03-01-2009, 01:49 AM | #80 | |||
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There were ideas about the superiority of Greek culture. Quote:
This may be a bit much but here goes anyway ... Quote:
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