RPS

So Calvin was a compatibilist then....

Storme

I’m using verbiage from another post that I think is relevant to this thread—

The Biblical view is that that “none are righteous�?—so there never is any real chance of becoming “righteous,�? or saved, without some sort of intervention from on high. More importantly, elsewhere in the Bible, god says: “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy . . .�?—all of which seems to more or less align with a Calvinist POV.

Interestingly, the Calvinist POV and a Darwinian atheism POV result in similar consequences—consider Dawkins’s statement: "In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it . . . �?

So whether it’s Dawkins’s “blind physical forces,�? or Jehovah’s “mercy on whomever I will have mercy,�? ultimately, it boils down to the same cruel deal: we ourselves play no part in whether we get lucky/blessed, or fucked.

Biff the unclean

[QUOTE=Storme]Not at all. “Blind physical forces�? do not have intent. Nor do they demand worship, nor do they pretend to be beyond our capacity to even comprehend.
In any form of Christianity that includes the concept of damnation you are faced with a God who is a monster and a thug.
Calvinists differ from the normal sort of monster worshiping in that they actually revel in the eternal suffering of others (not a single one thinks that they are not among the “elect.�?)
Standard Christian monster worshipers own sense of humanity compels them to gloss over the unspeakable cruelty that Calvinists savor.
If you are not saved by your own actions but only by “grace alone�? then you are still fucked, Calvinist or not.

Storme

Yes, but so what? If you see intent in what I know is obviously random, does it really change anything? Although one would think that it might possibly give me some sort of advantage since I know something that you don’t.

OTH, I suppose that such a fantasy—finding intent in randomness—could possibly give the xian some advantage (more optimism, better health, more inclination to reproduce, etc.) over those of us who know better. But still, so what and who cares? That is, after all, how the universe that we find ourselves in, seems to work.

I find it helpful to recite the Dawkinsian creed:

Afuckingmen.